The US fiscal cliff - would it really be a bad thing?

[Coito ergo sum]

You mean after he got back from his 2 week Hawaiian vacation? LOL.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/28/us/po ... al.html?hp

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Where was Congress during that time?

[Coito ergo sum]

Where was Congress during that time?

By Congress, do you mean the Senate? Or the House? Or Both?

The Democrats control the Senate, so you tell me -- where were they?

During the President's vacation, Boehner attempted to negotiate a deal. Everything he suggested was flatly rejected.

Unconvinced and clearly agitated, Bartiromo pointed at the screen and directly confronted Cardin about whether he’d be willing to consider tax code reform as a means to obtaining new revenue.

The senator’s response essentially boiled down to “No,” and so Bartiromo went off on him again: “You’re talking about $1.2 trillion in revenue, but you’re not prepared to put anything on the table. People are not stupid!”

Cardin then replied that “the easiest way to get the revenues is to [raise taxes on] the highest income brackets,” Bartiromo had enough and ended the conversation: “That’s all you want to do. That’s it. It’s your way or the highway. Raise the rates on the rich. No other way. Your way or the highway. That’s it. That’s where we are. Thank you, Senator.”

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/cnbc-anchor- ... t-or-what/

Bartiromo destroys Cardin here, and crystalizes the Democratic position.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You didn't answer the question, as usual. That's because you fucked up with your implied claim that Obama wasn't in Washington but the Republicans were. You really aren't very good at this, you're just a fast typer.

[Coito ergo sum]

You didn't answer the question, as usual. That's because you fucked up with your implied claim that Obama wasn't in Washington but the Republicans were. You really aren't very good at this, you're just a fast typer.

I did answer it. The House Republicans, led by Boehner, was in session and negotiating a deal, or trying to. They offered Plan B, for example, and that was rejected. What have the Democrats in Congress offered in return? Nothing. My way or the highway.

The Senate, led by Reid, could pass a bill to extend the Bush tax cuts for everyone except those making over $250,000 per year today, but they haven't. Why do you think that is, Zilla?

Congress was in Washington. Obama was in Hawaii.

And stop saying "Congress" as if that's the same thing as "Republicans." It's not. We have two houses of Congress, the Senate and the House of Representatives. There are Republicans and Democrats in both. The Democrats have a majority of the Senate seats, and the Republicans have a majority in the House.

Where have the Congressional Democrats been, Zilla? Care to answer that?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Coito ergo sum]

Doesn't answer the question, though, does it?

Seems as if question-answering goes only one way with you....

You're not telling me anything I don't already know when you say that the GOP is being blamed for the negotiations. That's why the Democrats don't care if we go over the cliff. They have nothing to lose -- give us everything we want, or you get blamed for the cliff.

That's why I suggested that the way out for the GOP is to cave in -- give the Democrats what they want under the stated reason that we have to avoid the cliff and the only way to do it is to give the President everything he wants. Then let the chips fall where they may. Just announce that if things work, great. If not, and the economy goes back into recession and the debt keeps rising outrageously, then the Democrat way will have shown itself to be wanting.

[MrJonno]

That's why I suggested that the way out for the GOP is to cave in -- give the Democrats what they want under the stated reason that we have to avoid the cliff and the only way to do it is to give the President everything he wants. Then let the chips fall where they may. Just announce that if things work, great. If not, and the economy goes back into recession and the debt keeps rising outrageously, then the Democrat way will have shown itself to be wanting.

Thats the way any sensible system should work the 'government' should be allowed to screw up (or be as successful) as much as it wants then there is a clear target to blame/reward.

Anything else is just plain bullshit

[amused]

The Democrats ran on higher taxes for the rich on the revenue side, along with maintaining the social safety nets on the spending side. They won the election. The Senate bill has higher taxes for the rich and maintains the social safety net. They've delivered what they said they would deliver. If the Senate bill were allowed to come up for a vote in the House (as it must, being a spending bill) there is a very good chance that enough Republicans would vote with the Democratic minority to pass it.

[Coito ergo sum]

That's why I suggested that the way out for the GOP is to cave in -- give the Democrats what they want under the stated reason that we have to avoid the cliff and the only way to do it is to give the President everything he wants. Then let the chips fall where they may. Just announce that if things work, great. If not, and the economy goes back into recession and the debt keeps rising outrageously, then the Democrat way will have shown itself to be wanting.

Thats the way any sensible system should work the 'government' should be allowed to screw up (or be as successful) as much as it wants then there is a clear target to blame/reward.

Anything else is just plain bullshit

Where does this sensible system exist? In Parliamentary systems, the minority pushes their view of it too, they don't just sit silently by.

But, you're not getting the idea that the American people did not vote the Democrats 100% plenary power. They gave the House to the Republicans and the Democrats got the Senate. The only reason I'm telling the GOP to cave and not the Democrats is because clearly the voting public is going to blame the Republicans if we go over the fiscal cliff, which is why the Democrats WANT to go over the fiscal cliff. The only way out for the Republicans is to cave in and leave the Democrats with the choice: (a) agree to what they themselves want, or (b) refuse to accept even a complete capitulation by the Republicans, and go over the cliff (and then MAYBE the media will suggest the Democrats were to blame for going over the cliff).

If the popular opinion was that the Democrats were to blame if we go over the cliff, I'd give them the same advice.

[Coito ergo sum]

The Democrats ran on higher taxes for the rich on the revenue side, along with maintaining the social safety nets on the spending side. They won the election. The Senate bill has higher taxes for the rich and maintains the social safety net. They've delivered what they said they would deliver. If the Senate bill were allowed to come up for a vote in the House (as it must, being a spending bill) there is a very good chance that enough Republicans would vote with the Democratic minority to pass it.

The House has already passed legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff. They delivered what they said they would deliver. The Senate has not passed anything that avoids the fiscal cliff.

[Tero]

The Democrats ran on higher taxes for the rich on the revenue side, along with maintaining the social safety nets on the spending side. They won the election. The Senate bill has higher taxes for the rich and maintains the social safety net. They've delivered what they said they would deliver. If the Senate bill were allowed to come up for a vote in the House (as it must, being a spending bill) there is a very good chance that enough Republicans would vote with the Democratic minority to pass it.

The House has already passed legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff. They delivered what they said they would deliver. The Senate has not passed anything that avoids the fiscal cliff.

In your dreams. It was a sketch of cutting spending. No revenue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_cli ... _proposals

[Coito ergo sum]

The Democrats ran on higher taxes for the rich on the revenue side, along with maintaining the social safety nets on the spending side. They won the election. The Senate bill has higher taxes for the rich and maintains the social safety net. They've delivered what they said they would deliver. If the Senate bill were allowed to come up for a vote in the House (as it must, being a spending bill) there is a very good chance that enough Republicans would vote with the Democratic minority to pass it.

The House has already passed legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff. They delivered what they said they would deliver. The Senate has not passed anything that avoids the fiscal cliff.

In your dreams. It was a sketch of cutting spending. No revenue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_cli ... _proposals

What has the Senate passed?

[amused]

My apologies CES, the Senate has not actually passed a bill, it's held up on threat of filibuster by McConnell. It can pass with 51 votes, but it needs 60 to overcome the filibuster. In any case, the Democrats have put forward a solution that is consistent with their campaign.

[Tero]

The Democrats ran on higher taxes for the rich on the revenue side, along with maintaining the social safety nets on the spending side. They won the election. The Senate bill has higher taxes for the rich and maintains the social safety net. They've delivered what they said they would deliver. If the Senate bill were allowed to come up for a vote in the House (as it must, being a spending bill) there is a very good chance that enough Republicans would vote with the Democratic minority to pass it.

The House has already passed legislation to avoid the fiscal cliff. They delivered what they said they would deliver. The Senate has not passed anything that avoids the fiscal cliff.

In your dreams. It was a sketch of cutting spending. No revenue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_cli ... _proposals

What has the Senate passed?

The senate is not the problem. It represents Americans pretty well. House is wacko. Full teaparytinhats.
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/274721 ... cliff-deal