27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[amused]

[Gallstones]

Quick question to those with military backgrounds: If I walk onto a military base, how many armed people can I expect to encounter? Assuming the base is in a non-combat area, I mean. (I have no military background.) Do the rank-and-file carry their weapons around with them all the time, or only a few guards at the gates?

Only Military Police.

On Basic Training bases the new recruits might be carrying rifles during some training, they will not have ammunition until they get out to the range.

During the Baader Mainhof activity we had to carry our M16's and gas masks. But I was in Germany at the time.

[Jason]

A simple lol is not sufficient provocation for bad behaviour. Many of us have received far worse than that without retaliating.

I responded to his lol with a lol. He responded with editing my post to add +raise you 20 dead children. Then I responded with 'and a half-eaten foetus' to make mockery of the absurdity of casting all non-anti gun people, and especially, pro-gun people, as baby killing monsters by introducing the classic 'atheists eat babies' - since we're mostly atheists here I thought my point would be got. He replied with 'in your cold dead hands'. He upped the ante the entire way and the irrational, provocative ,and disgusting way I've been getting for almost a week now - completely undeservedly. I think I responded rather mildly for someone who's had quite enough of that thing. Of course, the anti-gun crowd would have been practically cheering over it.

[Blind groper]

Faku

I do not want to sound unsympathetic, but that is still not sufficient excuse. The direct insults I have received from Seth, from something as mild as 'sheeple' to 'coward', to 'Fuck you' to 'fuckwit' and so on and so on. I slipped up once and told Seth he was showing all the symptoms of a psychopath (which was true), which was unwise of me. But generally, I have been restrained. And a lot of other people who have been regularly insulted also showed great restraint.

The general principle here is that those who descend to obscenities, ad hom attacks, blatant insults and so on are showing themselves to be low life. Those who blithely ignore those insults are showing themselves to be a higher form of debater.

[Jason]

Groper,

I really don't care what you think. /discussion

[Audley Strange]

"The general principle here is that those who descend to obscenities, ad hom attacks, blatant insults and so on are showing themselves to be low life."

Heheheh.

[Sean Hayden]

Groper

[Ian]

Some data for the couple of gun apologists here to chew on:

Overall opinions on gun control shift modestly towards favoring stricter regulations after Newtown:

Percentages of people who agree with the following statements:
"All guns should be illegal except for policemen or others requiring them in an official capacity": 15%
"In favor of major changes to make gun control policies stricter": 37%
"In favor of minor changes to make gun control policies stricter": 35%
"Not in favor of any changes/supports fewer gun control restrictions": 13%

Views on a few specific policies:


This data comes from before the Newtown massacre. Even before then, most people were in favor of several stricter policies which do not currently exist. Do you suppose Newtown might finally help galvanize these opinions into real policy?

A more important data point, IMO:

I keep thinking of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire of 1911; the workers safety and labor rights movement didn't begin with that incident, but that's what made it really take off. I'm hopeful that, ultimately, those victims at Newtown will go down in history as having saved the lives of others by inciting some much needed policy changes.

One more quirky data point to chew one: Economists estimate that the average life is "worth" appoximately $7 million. This means that America's firearm policy over the past twenty years has cost the nation approximately $1.75 trillion in lost lives. But who's counting?

[Blind groper]

Another point gun enthusiasts often forget is the damage they are doing to themselves, in the form of deafness. All regular shooters eventually suffer some degree of deafness. If the shooter uses good ear protection, this is reduced, but lots of them are careless about protection.*
http://www.earsoftexas.com/hearingear_d ... ooting.htm



* Which also links with the phallic nature of guns.

[Gallstones]

At what point post conception does this life worth accrue, or begin to accrue?

[FBM]

Quick question to those with military backgrounds: If I walk onto a military base, how many armed people can I expect to encounter? Assuming the base is in a non-combat area, I mean. (I have no military background.) Do the rank-and-file carry their weapons around with them all the time, or only a few guards at the gates?

Only Military Police.

On Basic Training bases the new recruits might be carrying rifles during some training, they will not have ammunition until they get out to the range.

During the Baader Mainhof activity we had to carry our M16's and gas masks. But I was in Germany at the time.

Thanks, Gallstones. Considering what you and mozg said, if someone on a military base managed to get their hands on a firearm and ammo, they could go at it for a good while before encountering armed resistance?

[Ian]

Quick question to those with military backgrounds: If I walk onto a military base, how many armed people can I expect to encounter? Assuming the base is in a non-combat area, I mean. (I have no military background.) Do the rank-and-file carry their weapons around with them all the time, or only a few guards at the gates?

Only Military Police.

On Basic Training bases the new recruits might be carrying rifles during some training, they will not have ammunition until they get out to the range.

During the Baader Mainhof activity we had to carry our M16's and gas masks. But I was in Germany at the time.

Thanks, Gallstones. Considering what you and mozg said, if someone on a military base managed to get their hands on a firearm and ammo, they could go at it for a good while before encountering armed resistance?

Maybe, maybe not. Fort Hood is an example worth mentioning. On a Navy base there'll be guards at the access points, but ships will also each have a few armed watchstanders on duty at the quarterdeck and elsewhere on board 24/7 while the ship is docked.

[FBM]

Ah. I should clarify. When I said "could," I meant that if someone tried, they could find a part of the base where they could go on a rampage without encountering immediate armed resistance.

[JimC]

Quick question to those with military backgrounds: If I walk onto a military base, how many armed people can I expect to encounter? Assuming the base is in a non-combat area, I mean. (I have no military background.) Do the rank-and-file carry their weapons around with them all the time, or only a few guards at the gates?

Only Military Police.

On Basic Training bases the new recruits might be carrying rifles during some training, they will not have ammunition until they get out to the range.

During the Baader Mainhof activity we had to carry our M16's and gas masks. But I was in Germany at the time.

Thanks, Gallstones. Considering what you and mozg said, if someone on a military base managed to get their hands on a firearm and ammo, they could go at it for a good while before encountering armed resistance?

Maybe, maybe not. Fort Hood is an example worth mentioning. On a Navy base there'll be guards at the access points, but ships will also each have a few armed watchstanders on duty at the quarterdeck and elsewhere on board 24/7 while the ship is docked.

The RAN needs to lift its game: http://www.theage.com.au/national/man-f ... 2ap0t.html

A 40-YEAR-OLD man will face court on Monday after police allegedly found 14 high-powered weapons stolen from a Navy base in his Darwin apartment.
It is believed the man did not conduct the brazen robbery, but was looking after the weapons after the late-night theft on Thursday.
Police suspect those behind the robbery may have naval links, and say they expect to make more arrests.
On Saturday police raided the man's inner-city apartment, where they recovered the weapons. Police said he tried to run away but was caught.
Advertisement
The man's arrest followed a robbery at a navy patrol boat moored at HMAS Coonawarra on Thursday night, in which a dozen semi-automatic pistols and two pump-action shotguns were stolen.
During the attack, a man wearing military attire and a balaclava overpowered and tied up a young sailor with cable ties. The sailor was unhurt.
Police Commander Richard Bryson said police believed several people were involved in the attack.
''The 40-year-old man has today been formally charged with one count of receiving stolen property, two counts of possessing a prohibited firearm and 12 counts of possessing a firearm without a licence,'' Commander Bryson said.
''Investigations are continuing into how the 40-year-old alleged offender came into possession of the stolen weapons.
''Investigations will continue until all persons that had a hand in that conspiracy have been brought to justice.''
He said police believed the offender knew the layout of the patrol boat, and the investigation would also consider links between the suspects and the naval base.
Navy chief Vice Admiral Ray Griggs has ordered a security review of all naval bases.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/national/man-f ... z2Fen2uxW4

[orpheus]

Aaaand it gets even more disgusting:

East Windsor Gun Shop Subject of Federal Investigation

This is the place that sold to Nancy Lanza, mother of Adam Lanza.