27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[Jason]

The average whitetail deer is 200lbs. At least around here. Mule deer (the prominent species of deer here) is about 50% larger. So you're wrong there.

What's more, the .223 does not deliver anything close to the transfer of energy of a .308 (7.62x54 for mozg who feels it necessary to use NATO calibre metrics) making one shot kills unlikely. Most likely you'll wound the deer, but not cripple it, and it will strike off some distance and die a slow death without you ever finding it.

[FBM]

The average hunter in TN is closer to 300lb.

http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/223 ... r-hunting/

[Gallstones]

I don't know if you can read this if you are not a registered member, so I will quote the post.

Posted in the thread: WTF is going on???school shooting.
http://www.usacarry.com/forums/general- ... post388487

Post #63

If the teachers were armed, they would still be victims. The teachers unions and the brady campaign walk hand in hand. There would have been one gun, kept in the principals office, unloaded with a cable lock through the action, trigger lock through the trigger guard, wire tie through the barrel with the magazine kept under lock and key in the vice principals office, and one bullet with each teacher, kept in a capsule up their rear beneath a chastity belt. And even then, with an active shooter on campus, the vice principal would be required to see 3 forms of ID, your birth certificate, do a background check, file paperwork, review school security policies, consult the administrator, call 911, personally inform every parent via phone....

[Jason]

mozg contends that

has exactly the same functionality as the scary looking black rifle that you're calling an 'assault weapon'.

Here's a scary looking black rifle I call an assault weapon:




Let me point out 4 essential features which deliver greatly different functionality:

1) The foregrip
2) The pistol grip
3) The collapsible stock
4) The length

What do these 4 essential features do that alters the functionality so greatly? The foregrip is designed to allow the shooter greater control and precision when firing rapidly in close quarters making engagement of multiple targets at close range much easier. The pistol grip is similarly designed to allow the shooter greater control and precision when firing rapidly in close quarters with the added advantage of shortening the overall length of the firearm for ease of handling and manoeuvrability in close quarters - very important when engaging multiple targets at close range in those conditions. The collapsible stock is designed to save space (space is a limited commodity in packed personnel carriers) and allows for greater ease of concealment when transporting the firearm into, say, a school. The length of the firearm is, once again, designed to enhanced handling characteristics and manoeuvrability in close quarters engagement making the engagement of multiple targets at close range much easier. (1), (2), and (4) all contribute to an ergonomic design purposed for close quarters combat and engagement with multiple targets. In short, they fire the same cartridge but the second is designed for one thing only: close quarters combat. Something it does very well.

[Jason]

The average hunter in TN is closer to 300lb.

http://www.americanhunter.org/blogs/223 ... r-hunting/

I know guys that use a .22WMR for deer hunting. I call them irresponsible idiots with a sniper complex.

[Jason]

I should say that this isn't about the .223 cartridge - it's available in many firearms including the famous Remington 700. It's about combat-purposed rifles, also known as 'assault weapons'.

[Jason]

I didn't bother to mention the difference in equipped optics, but, for those of whom it isn't obvious, the second is equipped with a reflex sight. A reflex sight is a type of optic in which the reticle, or dot, stays on the point of aim no matter what the viewers eye position (obviously moving to far out of frame loses the sight completely). They are designed to allow for rapid and accurate target acquisition - obviously something very important in close quarters combat.

[FBM]

Hmm. Sounds pretty useful for deer hunting, too.

I see your point wrt to other differences that make the Bushmaster an assault weapon, but not the other one.

[laklak]

Here's mozg's Mini 14 Rancher in tactical garb.



If you're going to ban the tactical version you need to ban it also. The differences you mentioned, Faku, may be important in a combat situation but won't make a lot of difference in a spree killing. It's certainly small enough to conceal under a coat, and if you cut off the shoulder stock it's even smaller. It does not fit the legal definition used in the 1994 assault weapons ban, but it's certainly lethal enough. You can buy 100 round drum magazines for it.

[Jason]

It does not fit the legal definition used in the 1994 assault weapons ban

Actually it does. It has a collapsible stock, a pistol grip that protrudes 'conspicuously' below the action, and a flash suppressor. That's three conditions, and it only needs to meet two.

[Jason]

The differences you mentioned, Faku, may be important in a combat situation but won't make a lot of difference in a spree killing.

What do you base that on? Everyone of them is designed to improve lethality in an assault situation, except the collapsible stock (which I didn't include in my summing up, only pointed out it aids concealment), which is exactly what a killing spree is.

[Blind groper]

Not quite sure why the discussion has headed this way. I thought we had pretty much agreed that banning military style weapons would not achieve much. The only kind of weapon I see being worth the political strife that comes from such a ban, is hand guns. For the simple and practical reason that they are overwhelmingly the greatest killer of people.

[Jason]

Groper,

A forum discussion is like a conversation. It may take detours from the original topic.. yada yada.

[Jason]

we had pretty much agreed that banning military style weapons would not achieve much

No. No we didn't.

[Jason]

The only kind of weapon I see being worth the political strife that comes from such a ban

So it's not worthwhile to ban the kind of weapons used in the Batman and Connecticut massacres? I see.