27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[macdoc]

You'd be wrong

300 million guns??

How's that working out??

Not very well it seems

Sunday, Dec 16, 2012 02:05 PM EST
Indiana man arrested with 47 guns after threats to local school
Von. I. Meyer reportedly said he would kill "as many people as he could"

http://www.salon.com/2012/12/16/indiana ... al_school/

[Ian]

I'd say the inadequacy of mental healthcare is important, but secondary rather than primary. How much faith do you really put in mental health professionals to tell you who is safe and who is not? Or in people who need mental healthcare to actually seek it?

Exactly! My mom was diagnosed as depressed and bi-polar, but she does nothing about it. Just makes everyone else's lives miserable at times!

Remarkable that she was actually diagnosed. Many if not most never get even that far. My mother-in-law is a case-in-point that I don't even care to discuss in detail.

[Jason]

macdoc, you just don't get it. Why should I bother talking to you? 300 million guns? Make it 100 million or 50 million. If you want one you can get one. Legalities will not stop determined psychopaths.

[Jason]

I'd say the inadequacy of mental healthcare is important, but secondary rather than primary. How much faith do you really put in mental health professionals to tell you who is safe and who is not? Or in people who need mental healthcare to actually seek it?

Exactly! My mom was diagnosed as depressed and bi-polar, but she does nothing about it. Just makes everyone else's lives miserable at times!

Remarkable that she was actually diagnosed. Many if not most never get even that far. My mother-in-law is a case-in-point that I don't even care to discuss in detail.

I'd say the fact that so many people are never seen by a mental health professional at all is encompassed in the inadequacy of the system. Wouldn't you?

[Kristie]

I'd say the inadequacy of mental healthcare is important, but secondary rather than primary. How much faith do you really put in mental health professionals to tell you who is safe and who is not? Or in people who need mental healthcare to actually seek it?

Exactly! My mom was diagnosed as depressed and bi-polar, but she does nothing about it. Just makes everyone else's lives miserable at times!

Remarkable that she was actually diagnosed. Many if not most never get even that far. My mother-in-law is a case-in-point that I don't even care to discuss in detail.

It was only after me and my sister drug her ass to the appointments we scheduled her. Of course shewing take any type if medication or talk to a therapist of any kind. She is not permitted to spend time alone with my children, and that's still not motivation enough for her to get help.

[Ian]

I believe that treating the problem the United States has (an inordinate amount of violent psychopaths) is more important than attempting to restrict one means by which they can kill if your goal is to stop these kinds of tragedies.

Stricter gun control is something I approve of, however it has little to no bearing on whether a demented lunatic will be able to arm himself and commit mass murder.

If you're resigned to the position of "lunatics are gonna snap, and they're gonna do what they're gonna do", then stricter gun control could have a great deal of bearing on how many people they'll be able to kill when they snap. It's a step in the right direction.

[Blind groper]

Fakuname

Other nations have just as high a percentage of nut cases. But much lower levels of homicides and mass murders. The difference is gun culture and access to guns.

[Ian]

I'd say the inadequacy of mental healthcare is important, but secondary rather than primary. How much faith do you really put in mental health professionals to tell you who is safe and who is not? Or in people who need mental healthcare to actually seek it?

Exactly! My mom was diagnosed as depressed and bi-polar, but she does nothing about it. Just makes everyone else's lives miserable at times!

Remarkable that she was actually diagnosed. Many if not most never get even that far. My mother-in-law is a case-in-point that I don't even care to discuss in detail.

I'd say the fact that so many people are never seen by a mental health professional at all is encompassed in the inadequacy of the system. Wouldn't you?

More or less. It wouldn't be a terrible idea for people to get used to having a routine mental health session as they would have a checkup to monitor the rest of their health, with detected problems receiving referrals to specialists for further treatment. But that's going to involve quite an overhaul of the system: a prospect which, judging from the last few years, is something much easier said than done.

[macdoc]

Much lower??? given to much understatement???

[Jason]

I don't want to say "I told you so" when the day comes that another 30 or more people are killed even after stricter gun control laws have been put in place. but it's obvious we're not going to agree.

It's a step on one front, I hope it's not the only front that will be addressed.

[Jason]

Fakuname

Other nations have just as high a percentage of nut cases. But much lower levels of homicides and mass murders. The difference is gun culture and access to guns.

Groper, that's nonsense. As I've stated before, compare Canada to the USA. Same ease with which you can obtain any illegal firearm, nearly the same ease to obtain them legally. Apparently you only like to make comparisons which support your pet theories.

[Ian]

I don't want to say "I told you so" when the day comes that another 30 or more people are killed even after stricter gun control laws have been put in place. but it's obvious we're not going to agree.

It's a step on one front, I hope it's not the only front that will be addressed.

That's the thing about griping about us folks who want stricter gun controls: all the "I-told-you-so" scenarios are theoretical. We're the ones who are taking issue with the status quo. And it's your status quo that you're defending.

Here's one thing that isn't theoretical: in 1996 a guy went into a primary school in Dunblane, Scotland and killed seventeen people, sixteen of which were Kindergarteners. The following year, nearly all firearms other than historical muzzle-loading weapons and weapons described as longer than hand-held were banned. No major mass shooting since. Something else that didn't happen: no enslavement of the population by a tyrannical government (that was a jab at Seth, not you btw). Would anyone here describe the British as a people that do not enjoy enough freedom?

Of course, it's always hard to acknowledge credit for things which didn't happen. But there it is.

[SteveB]

The Brits do have less free speech than Merkins. I keep hearing Brits being jailed for doing phone pranks and stuff. Probably has nothing to do with their lack of freedom to own guns tho.

[Blind groper]

Groper, that's nonsense. As I've stated before, compare Canada to the USA. Same ease with which you can obtain any illegal firearm, nearly the same ease to obtain them legally. Apparently you only like to make comparisons which support your pet theories.

Interestingly, that is a comparison that Michael Moore made in the film "Bowling for Columbine". It would appear that the culture in Canada is quite different. Canadians do not have the unfortunate American gun culture. This is shown by the fact that, ease of access regardless, a much lower percentage of Canadians own guns. With a population of 35 million, only about 2 million own guns.

As I have said, the number of gun problems - primarily homicides and suicide - in the USA is related to ease of access and gun culture. Access alone does not cause the problem to the degree found in the USA.

[Jason]

I don't want to say "I told you so" when the day comes that another 30 or more people are killed even after stricter gun control laws have been put in place. but it's obvious we're not going to agree.

It's a step on one front, I hope it's not the only front that will be addressed.

That's the thing about griping about us folks who want stricter gun controls: all the "I-told-you-so" scenarios are theoretical. We're the ones who are taking issue with the status quo. And it's your status quo that you're defending.

I'm not defending the status quo. If I was I'd be opposed to stricter gun control when I'm not only in favour of it but also the reformation of your 2nd amendment.

Despite repeating this umpteen times, it's apparently still being missed. I suggest reform of the 2nd amendment to allow for mandatory possession licenses in every state and mandatory psych profiling as part of the licensing process. However, cut the number of guns in circulation by half (a miraculous feat) and these psychos will still be able to get them with ease. Theoretical? This psycho used his mother's guns who, presumably, would be judged fit to own them even under the much stricter gun control I suggest.