27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

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Seth
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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Seth » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:28 am

Blind groper wrote:
Seth wrote:

All that matters is that MY concealed carry reduces crime around me, as you have admitted.
I do not recall saying that.
Sorry, you're right, it wasn't you. You hoplophobes all sound alike.
Nor could I reasonably come to that conclusion. If nothing else, I cannot judge that you will behave in a responsible way, since I know you only through your posts (which do not fill me with confidence). For all I know, you may be a serial killer who uses his concealed carry as a tool for killing innocent people. OK. That is probably not true, but I have no way of knowing.
And I don't know that you're not a deviant pedophillic child murderer who has seven children enslaves for your sexual pleasure in your basement. That would explain your aversion to citizens being armed, as they might find out and engage in some vigilante justice.

I have no way of knowing, so I'll just remain armed just in case.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Woodbutcher » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:35 am

Seth wrote:
Woodbutcher wrote:I used to hunt after school in the fall. I carried my 12-gauge to school and stored in my locker during the day. Nobody worried. Lot of other kids did the same, sometimes they'd even compare their rifles during breaks. I used to hitch-hike to a hunting area 5 miles away with two other gun carrying friends, and at times the guns were not in cases. We always got rides, nobody worried. But we never considered shooting people we did not like. Never blasted things for fun. Carrying and owning a gun is a privilege, not a fucking right. Only spineless shits think it is a right.

Only spineless shits think it's not, particularly in light of the pronouncements of the United States Supreme Court and the Constitution that it is.


When you think it's a right you cannot limit gun ownership to responsible people only, you get fucking twinkies packing heat.
Even "twinkies" have a right to keep and bear arms, right up until they're irresponsible with them. So do you.
Also, concealed carry is good for the criminals as well. they'll just get you from behind without warning you.
That's what "situational awareness" is for. Carrying a gun keeps you much more situationally aware than Joe Average wandering around in Condition White, oblivious to threats in his immediate vicinity.

Nobody comes up behind me without me knowing it.
NRA is a fucking looney bin.


Well, it's our loony bin, so you can fuck off and die.
Good luck with that. I prefer to live in a civilized country, US is OK but contains an excessively large amount of nuts.
Fine by me, but no bitching and complaining when some thug comes up and beats you to death with a hockey stick, okay?
They get no respect from me. You only bring that up because that agrees with your hoplophile Marxist-Leninist agenda.
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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Blind groper » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:47 am

Incidentally, Seth, you are using the word 'hoplophobe' incorrectly. While it includes a fear of firearms, the meaning is much broader than that. Hoplophobia is a fear of technology, but especially of weapons. A hoplophobe is afraid of many things, and so it is not an appropriate use of the word to use it to describe people who want gun control to be tightened.
For every human action, there is a rationalisation and a reason. Only sometimes do they coincide.

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Seth » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:31 am

Blind groper wrote:Incidentally, Seth, you are using the word 'hoplophobe' incorrectly. While it includes a fear of firearms, the meaning is much broader than that. Hoplophobia is a fear of technology, but especially of weapons. A hoplophobe is afraid of many things, and so it is not an appropriate use of the word to use it to describe people who want gun control to be tightened.
"Hoplophobe" is a word coined by the late Col. Jeff Cooper in 1962 to describe "mental aberration consisting of an unreasoning terror of gadgetry, specifically, weapons."
I coined the term "hoplophobia" in 1962 in response to a perceived need for a word to describe a mental
aberration consisting of an unreasoning terror of gadgetry, specifically, weapons. The most common
manifestation of hoplophobia is the idea that instruments possess a will of their own, apart from that of their
user. This is not a reasoned position, but when you point this out to a hoplophobe he is not impressed because
his is an unreasonable position. To convince a man that he is not making sense is not to change his viewpoint
but rather to make an enemy. Thus hoplophobia is a useful word, but as with all words, it should be used
correctly. Source: Cooper, Jeff. Vol. 5 No. 7 Jeff Cooper's Commentaries. June 1997, pg. 39. (link to document available at Wikipedia in the footnotes section of "hoplophobe."
It's used today as a generic term for "gun banners" and others of that ilk who make the asinine suggestion that "assault weapons" are somehow capable of independent action and that because these lumps of inanimate steel and aluminum are so "dangerous" they must be banned. The term refers to the mental defect of blaming the inanimate object rather than the human being operating it as an argument in the gun-ban agenda.

It speaks to an unreasoning fear of the aesthetics of a particular design style of long rifles; the semi-automatic rifle which resembles in many or indeed most respects the design and appearance of the military fully-automatic assault rifle like the M-16/M4.

Hoplophobes deliberately try to conflate the aesthetics of semi-automatic "military style" rifles with the appearance and operation of actual military firearms. Those in the MSM who write on the subject usually (and often deliberately, knowingly and mendaciously) call them "machine guns" when they are not. It's all a part of the leftist agenda to demonize gun ownership and place the useful idiots of the proletarian dependent class in equally unreasoning fear of the aesthetics of a rifle. The fact is that the aesthetics have nothing whatever to do with the actual design and operation of the weapon, which like all semi-automatic firearms, fires one round with one trigger pull.

The purpose of this hyperbole and mendacious fear mongering is ultimately to ban ALL semi-automatic firearms of ANY description, including handguns, on the bogus theory that they must be banned because they "shoot too many bullets too quickly."

Indeed, in California, an "assault weapon" (AR-15 variant) must have a special magazine release button that cannot be operated with the fingers, but instead has a small hole that requires the operator to use the tip of a live round of ammunition to free the magazine. The idiotic theory here is to "slow down" the operator's ability to change magazines. For what purpose is not entirely clear, nor is it at all clear that the system has any significant effect on magazine change times.

I encountered just such a rife at the Fort Benning International Sniper Competition a few weeks ago, and the expedient used by the owner was a ring on his second finger fitted with a point that would trip the release. His mag changes were not perceptibly longer than those of standard ARs.

Obviously such a system would have been of no use in Connecticut, even if magazine capacity were limited to 10 rounds as Diane Feinstein is insisting on. Of course she knows she can't ban retroactively the possession of large-capacity magazines, so she's playing political games with her bill because there are tens of millions of U.S. GI issue 30 round M-16 magazines currently in circulation, not to mention millions of commercial variants that hold up to 100 rounds each.

The notion that a magazine ban would make the slightest difference in the next 200 years is simply laughable.

I myself procured more than 100 30 round magazines in anticipation of just such a ban, including a 100 round drum magazine.

And I'll procure some more. Thus, I'll have a lifetime supply of magazines, and any I can spare will become increasingly valuable on the black market, which will flourish regardless because there is absolutely no way to track magazine sales.

As I've said so many times, the problem is not "assault weapons" or even handguns, the problem is that, as in this case, nobody in the building but the bad guy had a gun.

Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-TX) said on Fox News Sunday,
“Once we have this actually open dialogue about the situation you find out…every mass killing of more than three people in recent history has been in a place where guns were prohibited, except for one. They choose this place. They know no one will be armed. You know, having been a judge, having reviewed photographs of these horrific scenes and knowing that children have these defensive wounds, gun shots through their arms and hands as they try to protect themselves and hearing the heroic stories of the principal lunging trying to protect…Chris, I wish to God she had had an M4 in her office locked up so when she heard gun fire she pulls it out and she didn’t have to lunge heroically with nothing in her hands, but she takes him out, takes his head off before he could kill those precious kids.” ...
http://times247.com/articles/rep-gohmer ... z2FGwq7b6M
I agree. And I wish the school district had taken security seriously and installed armored, bulletproof doors on the foyer, among other simple and cost-effective security measures that could have stopped this assault before it began.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Kristie » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:38 am

We danced.

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Ian
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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Ian » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:45 am

Seth wrote: And I wish the school district had taken security seriously and installed armored, bulletproof doors on the foyer, among other simple and cost-effective security measures that could have stopped this assault before it began.
The guy apparently broke a window to get in. Unless that school was a fortress, the guy was going to get in. We could do more to increase security in schools, no doubt about it; my wife's middle school bit the bullet and shelled out funds to hire permanent security a few years ago. But to augment every school that needs it takes a lot of money, something schools rarely if ever have enough of as it is. Correcting that problem means one thing only: spending tax dollars. Bake sales and rhetoric about "doing more" just don't cut it. Care to get into a discussion about the need to move tax dollars from, say, the DoD into the Dept. of Education? Or perhaps raising new ones for the DoE?

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Jason » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:00 am

Simple. Incorporate the DoE into the DoD. Budget problems solved forever.

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Ian » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:03 am

:hehe:


:ask:

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Blind groper » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:06 am

Kristie wrote:I found this interesting.
http://samuel-warde.com/2012/12/open-le ... americans/
Nice reference, Kristie. I hope Seth reads it.
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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Kristie » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:09 am

Blind groper wrote:
Kristie wrote:I found this interesting.
http://samuel-warde.com/2012/12/open-le ... americans/
Nice reference, Kristie. I hope Seth reads it.
I'm sure it's totally bs and not credible. :roll:
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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Blind groper » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:18 am

Kristie wrote: I'm sure it's totally bs and not credible.
Well, you can guarantee that Seth will describe it that way.
For every human action, there is a rationalisation and a reason. Only sometimes do they coincide.

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Jason » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:19 am

I'm disappointed there isn't more focus placed on the inadequacy of mental healthcare - really it should be primary. The guy makes some good points, but focuses entirely on gun control.


Oddly googleads put an ad for DVOR on that page (they sell hunting and shooting stuff among other things).

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Ian » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:22 am

I'd say the inadequacy of mental healthcare is important, but secondary rather than primary. How much faith do you really put in mental health professionals to tell you who is safe and who is not? Or in people who need mental healthcare to actually seek it?

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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Kristie » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:24 am

Ian wrote:I'd say the inadequacy of mental healthcare is important, but secondary rather than primary. How much faith do you really put in mental health professionals to tell you who is safe and who is not? Or in people who need mental healthcare to actually seek it?
Exactly! My mom was diagnosed as depressed and bi-polar, but she does nothing about it. Just makes everyone else's lives miserable at times!
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Re: 27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

Post by Jason » Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:27 am

I believe that treating the problem the United States has (an inordinate amount of violent psychopaths) is more important than attempting to restrict one means by which they can kill if your goal is to stop these kinds of tragedies.

Stricter gun control is something I approve of, however it has little to no bearing on whether a demented lunatic will be able to arm himself and commit mass murder.

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