The UK - better together!

[Jason]

The reunification of Germany being quite the special case, I can see how you cite it as precedent.

[mistermack]

The reunification of Germany being quite the special case, I can see how you cite it as precedent.

I have a precedent for citing it as a precedent. The deputy first minister of the SNP cited it today.

[ronmcd]

The reunification of Germany being quite the special case, I can see how you cite it as precedent.

I have a precedent for citing it as a precedent. The deputy first minister of the SNP cited it today.

To quote Sturgeon's comments about Germany : "EU found a solution that is consistent with the principle of sincere co-operation that lies at the heart of the EU Treaties. They adapted and they did it on the basis of common sense and accommodation of internal decisions taken by one of its member states."

What Germany was not was a precedent for a union being dissolved by one of the two parties to it. It was an example of EU being entirely sensible and pragmatic.

(good try though! )

[mistermack]

I see it's very revealing that Alex Salmond has become nearly invisible since the president's comments. He's left all the talking to his deputy. I think he's beginning to realise he's up shit creek.

There is no way he's going to be able to tell people the transfer after an independence vote will be assured now.
He can hint all he likes, or say it's "in everybody's interest" and all the rest of the phrases designed to deceive.

What he won't be able to do is to CONVINCE anybody, other than those who WANT to believe him.
Because there is absolutely no way that anybody in Europe is going to say anything different to what the president said.

All he can do, eventually, is to acknowledge that Scotland will have to stay within the UK after the vote for a substantial period.
That is, until he can get unanimous agreement for Scotland's membership as a new state, and all of the conditions that go with it.

He can't just have a chat in a back room. It wil have to be hammered out, and then agreed by all. That could take many years, or never happen. It would only take one to block it.
So if you vote for independence, you are voting for years of uncertainty, and who is going to make major investments in Scotland, until they know the long-term future? My forecast is that investment will dry up, even before the vote.

And Salmond is going to look more and more stupid as time goes on, that he didn't start the consultation process years earlier.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

I thought the Scots Nats handled Boroso very well - even though the decisions are above his pay grade (and therefore his opinion is irrelevant). The decisions having SFA to do with the law and are simply political - the question is will the rest of the EU better off with Scotland fully in the EU?, completely outside? or Norway style have cake and eat it?!......a slam dunk decision to have Scotland in the EU.

The good new for the Yes campaign is that by despatching letters and folks to the EU in response (even if only to say hello!) they can henceforth claim to already be in discussions with EU on the subject - and with the EU side having no agreed position (pre Vote) will be able to easily claim that all is well and that there would simply be 2 years of post vote discussions / negotiations with the EU alongside those with the UK to dot the i's and cross the t's - and the outcome would be broadly be the same as at present, except Scotland would be far more Pro EU than London ever will be.

The EU will simply use the fact that Scotland is already a seperate country (within the EU) as the reason it is treated different to regions seeking independence from other EU countries.....so doesn't set a precedent for others. if their is a fudge to be found the EU will find it!

[Jason]

When Scotland secedes will the old Queen have to give them Balmoral?

[mistermack]

If there was a reasonable chance of a yes vote, I'd be investing now in a new English whiskey distillery.
I can imagine it selling quite well, once Scotland was foreign.
The Lake District, maybe, or Dartmoor would be nice.

[ronmcd]

I see it's very revealing that Alex Salmond has become nearly invisible since the president's comments. He's left all the talking to his deputy. I think he's beginning to realise he's up shit creek.

Displaying that staggering lack of knowledge again, eh? Salmond isn't in charge of the referendum campaign, thats Yes Scotland. And Deputy FM has been the minister with direct responsibility for the independence policy for the last couple of months and Salmond has stepped back over that time.

Oops.

But hey, dont let facts get in the way of your Salmond obsession!

There is no way he's going to be able to tell people the transfer after an independence vote will be assured now.

It is assured, even the Better Together frontman Darling agrees. The fearmongering has switched - as it always must - to the next "unknown" ... the terms of membership, and the requirement for "negotiation". The papers here in Scotland are full of claims that SNP have suddenly changed their position, acknowledging negotiations will be required! Shock! Even though the SNP have said that since their independence leaflets and documents in 2007 that negotiations will be required.

He can hint all he likes, or say it's "in everybody's interest" and all the rest of the phrases designed to deceive.

What he won't be able to do is to CONVINCE anybody, other than those who WANT to believe him.
Because there is absolutely no way that anybody in Europe is going to say anything different to what the president said.

All he can do, eventually, is to acknowledge that Scotland will have to stay within the UK after the vote for a substantial period.

Eh? That IS the plan! Referendum in 2014, independence by 2016, thats the Scottish govt intention. It has always been the plan. All the negotiations with UK and Europe in that period, and no doubt it will all be fine.

Where the hell have you been??

That is, until he can get unanimous agreement for Scotland's membership as a new state, and all of the conditions that go with it.

He can't just have a chat in a back room. It wil have to be hammered out, and then agreed by all. That could take many years, or never happen. It would only take one to block it.
So if you vote for independence, you are voting for years of uncertainty, and who is going to make major investments in Scotland, until they know the long-term future? My forecast is that investment will dry up, even before the vote.

So ... here is THE no campaign argument:

Because there will be negotiations with Europe ... its not worth being independent.

That's the positive argument for the union! And what is Cameron going to be doing in the next few years? Negotiating with Europe over the same things.

And Salmond is going to look more and more stupid as time goes on, that he didn't start the consultation process years earlier.

Someones beginning to look fucking stupid, but it isn't wee eck ...

[Red Celt]

If there was a reasonable chance of a yes vote, I'd be investing now in a new English whiskey distillery.
I can imagine it selling quite well, once Scotland was foreign.
The Lake District, maybe, or Dartmoor would be nice.

In Scotland, it's whisky. In Ireland it's whiskey. The Irish might insist that you choose another name. In English, the Gaelic means Water of Life.

"Yeah, barman, Water of Life on the rocks, please."

It might catch on.

Go to your drinks cabinet and throw away every drink that is "foreign"; you won't have enough left to get pissed on.

If you were alive at the time, you'd have been planning on selling a rival to Guinness when Ireland gained independence. Because everyone from England, Wales and N.Ireland hates foreign drink... right?

Sometimes I'm torn between the possibilities of whether you're trying to be funny, or you're just stupid. Or a bit of both.

But here's something a bit more interesting, courtesy of the Scotch Whisky Association.

Facts & Figures

31 May 2012

• Exports generated £4.23 billion for the UK balance of trade, a record high.
• Exports earned £134 every second.
• 40 bottles were shipped overseas each second.
• 140 million cases were exported worldwide.
• Laid end to end they would stretch more than 30,000kms - or about six times the distance between Edinburgh and New York.
• 10,300 employed in the Scotch Whisky industry - many in economically deprived areas.
• 35,000 jobs across the UK are supported by the industry.
• About £1 billion contributed to the Exchequer in taxes.
• Some 20 million casks lie maturing in warehouses in Scotland.
• To be Scotch Whisky, the spirit must mature in oak casks in Scotland for at least 3 years.
• 108 distilleries are licensed to produce Scotch Whisky.

Did you know?

• Scotch Whisky accounts for a quarter of UK food and drink exports.
• Scotch Whisky is sold in 200 markets worldwide.
• Scotch Whisky sells three times its nearest rival whisky.
• Over £1bn a year is invested across the industry's supply chain.
• About £3bn in Gross Value Added contributed annually to the Scottish economy.
• Highest price paid at auction for a Scotch Whisky is £288,000.
• Drinkers in the UK often choose to enjoy it with just a little water, but in Spain they mix it with cola. In Japan Scotch is enjoyed with lots of water and ice, and in China with cold green tea.
• More Scotch is sold in one month in France than Cognac in a year.

[Jason]

Did you know?
I prefer Canadian Whiskey over Scotch because Scotch is unreasonably expensive.

[Svartalf]

More Scotch is sold in one month in France than Cognac in a year. Really?

Given the compared produced volumes and price of the cheapest Cognac to trash whiskies like J&B and sir william peel or the like... I have no idea why that would happen

[Jason]

How can you compare Cognac to Scotch?

Cognac is sickening, and I've tried some of the 'best' brands. Besides they're two entirely different drinks.

[Svartalf]

Făkü, good Cognac is a delight, even though an equal delight can usually be found cheaper with Armagnac. I you can't appreciate brandy, no need to disgust others.

and decent Scotch if fucking expensive.

[Jason]

I've had Henessy and it was putrid. Is it considered 'good'? It's always touted around as one of the 'best'.

[Svartalf]

Go get a new tongue and throat, they are obviously out of order, the Hennessy I've got here is excellent.