27 dead at Connecticut school, including 14 kids

[Jason]

Psychopaths are very motivated and often take the time to carefully and deliberately lay out their plans. See shooting at Batman movie for example

If what you say is true we would be seeing psychopaths going on rampages all around the World in countries with strict gun laws using bombs made from fertilizer and such. Yet we don't....

No, but you're sort of making a valid point. The problem is not the tools available, it's the culture that spawns these psychopaths.

[Jason]

They are not tools - fuck off with the euphemisms....they are deadly weapons that have no place in modern society.
Usual gun lover crap spewing forth,

Look, this is very upsetting, but this sort of emotive response does nothing to further discussion. If you want to vent, do it on someone else.

[Coito ergo sum]

Fucking parasite!

So -- because other people said "we don't want you in our schools", god sat by and let 27 people die, including 18 kids who never had the opportunity to invite or uninvite god into the classroom....?

Put this guy on the fucking list of people I wish I could piss on. What a fucking monster this piece of garbage is. Fuck you, you fucking piece of fucking fish shit on the bottom of the ocean. Kill yourself, now. (referring to the guy on the video)

[orpheus]

One problem is that gun advocates will always blame the shooter and say we need to enforce existing gun control laws so they aren't sold to nutjobs. But that's unrealistic; most of the time we can only identify a nutjob after they've done something like this.

Wrong. Psychological profiling. It works.

Wrong. It works only some of the time. Very often it does not work at all.

Moreover, even you were right, are the background checks to buy a gun really sophisticated enough to be called "psychological profiling"?

[Coito ergo sum]

Violence in the media entrains the susceptible into these ways of thinking.

Evidence?

[Svartalf]

Which is someone more likely to pick up impulsively and use?

baseball bat? monkey wrench? decorative candlestick? kitchen knives?

[Jason]

One problem is that gun advocates will always blame the shooter and say we need to enforce existing gun control laws so they aren't sold to nutjobs. But that's unrealistic; most of the time we can only identify a nutjob after they've done something like this.

Wrong. Psychological profiling. It works.

Wrong. It works only some of the time. Very often it does not work at all.

Moreover, even you were right, are the background checks to buy a gun really sophisticated enough to be called "psychological profiling"?

It works quite well in my experience. Perhaps it depends on how thorough it is. I had to be profiled when I got my federal clearance back when.

No, the background checks involved in becoming a gun owner in the United States are grossly deficient, to put it mildly, and besides illegal guns are easily obtained anywhere in the world.

[cronus]

Violence in the media entrains the susceptible into these ways of thinking.

Evidence?

I'm not saying all are susceptible but amplifying the effects of a dysfunctional upbringing in a certain minority doesn't take rocket science to know the effects...the outcomes...

http://crx.sagepub.com/content/21/4/516.abstract

[Gerald McGrew]

Reports are now that the shooter's mom worked at the school, and he shot her first then went on his rampage.

Clearly a very fucked up individual.

[Gerald McGrew]

It works quite well in my experience. Perhaps it depends on how thorough it is. I had to be profiled when I got my federal clearance back when.

No, the background checks involved in becoming a gun owner in the United States are grossly deficient, to put it mildly, and besides illegal guns are easily obtained anywhere in the world.

The problem is, a background check and a psychological profile are not the same thing. Background checks just look into criminal histories and histories of mental illness. Conducting a psychological profile for every prospective gun owner would be very different indeed. The main issue with that (besides the logistics) is we have a Constitution that defines gun ownership as an inherent right. As a result being able to own a gun is the default status, so it becomes rather difficult to argue "You must first prove your mental health before exercising your Constitutional right".

[aspire1670]

Psychopaths are very motivated and often take the time to carefully and deliberately lay out their plans. See shooting at Batman movie for example

If what you say is true we would be seeing psychopaths going on rampages all around the World in countries with strict gun laws using bombs made from fertilizer and such. Yet we don't....

No, but you're sort of making a valid point. The problem is not the tools available, it's the culture that spawns these psychopaths.

*facepalm*

And that culture would be the gun culture. Crikey, you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[Jason]

It works quite well in my experience. Perhaps it depends on how thorough it is. I had to be profiled when I got my federal clearance back when.

No, the background checks involved in becoming a gun owner in the United States are grossly deficient, to put it mildly, and besides illegal guns are easily obtained anywhere in the world.

The problem is, a background check and a psychological profile are not the same thing. Background checks just look into criminal histories and histories of mental illness. Conducting a psychological profile for every prospective gun owner would be very different indeed. The main issue with that (besides the logistics) is we have a Constitution that defines gun ownership as an inherent right. As a result being able to own a gun is the default status, so it becomes rather difficult to argue "You must first prove your mental health before exercising your Constitutional right".

It is very strange that a person may be denied their constitutional right to bear arms on the basis of past mental illness, but to conduct a psychological profile to determine if they pose a danger to themselves or others (the basis of disqualification for past mental illnesses I believe) before becoming a gun owner is said to be unconstitutional. Clearly there are provisos for denying this constitutional right in place, why must mental illness first be demonstrated for them to be exercised?

[Jason]

Psychopaths are very motivated and often take the time to carefully and deliberately lay out their plans. See shooting at Batman movie for example

If what you say is true we would be seeing psychopaths going on rampages all around the World in countries with strict gun laws using bombs made from fertilizer and such. Yet we don't....

No, but you're sort of making a valid point. The problem is not the tools available, it's the culture that spawns these psychopaths.

*facepalm*

And that culture would be the gun culture. Crikey, you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.

No, that's symptomatic of the larger problem.

[orpheus]

Something else just occurred to me. To those who contend that guns are not the problem; that people would just kill with other implements: why don't we see those incidents then? If there's nothing special about guns, we should also see comparable numbers of murders and mass murders from other weapons. But we don't.

Wonder why that is.

[Jason]

Something else just occurred to me. To those who contend that guns are not the problem; that people would just kill with other implements: why don't we see those incidents then? If there's nothing special about guns, we should also see comparable numbers of deaths - intentional and accidental - from other weapons. But we don't.

Wonder why that is.

Let me try to straighten out your warped perception of this line of argument. When I say guns are not the problem, I mean they are not the causative factor. The availability of guns is the reason they are used, yes. But the reason tragedies like this occur is not because of the tools employed. Thus they are not the problem. Remove the tools, the problem remains. Guns did not make this man do what he did, he used them to do it.

Sometimes I wonder if anti-gun people understand the concept of causality at all.