Make big companies pay tax? A joke.

[mistermack]

Our chancellor today announced £70 million for a program to make big companies actually pay the level of corporation tax that they should. They claim that this £70m will bring in about £2.4 billion.

1) So they admit the've done fuck-all up to now.

2) In that case, spend £140m and bring in £4.8 billion. Or more for more.

Fuck Starbucks and Google and ebay. This country can function fine without them.

[Cormac]

They already do pay the corporation tax that they're supposed to. If the UK government wants them to pay more they will need to do.a number of things:

1. Change the corporation tax rate
2. Renegotiate international trade agreements
3. Renegotiate accounting standards.

Then watch as companies relocate...

[ronmcd]

They already do pay the corporation tax that they're supposed to. If the UK government wants them to pay more they will need to do.a number of things:

1. Change the corporation tax rate
2. Renegotiate international trade agreements
3. Renegotiate accounting standards.

Then watch as companies relocate...

Yes, they currently ARE paying the tax they are "supposed" to. The rules across Europe allow them to do what they are doing. Without changing the agreements between countries, the only way to fix this would be to make UK corporation tax more competitive (perhaps not necessarily undercut the lowest).

And to be clear, I'm not saying it's right that these companies do what they do, but they are simply doing what they are allowed to do. Of all the things I blame Osbourne for (and there are many) this isn't one of them.

[Coito ergo sum]

Our chancellor today announced £70 million for a program to make big companies actually pay the level of corporation tax that they should. They claim that this £70m will bring in about £2.4 billion.

1) So they admit the've done fuck-all up to now.

2) In that case, spend £140m and bring in £4.8 billion. Or more for more.

Fuck Starbucks and Google and ebay. This country can function fine without them.

I suppose it all depends if your goal is to see the greater good for the greater number, or whether you just want to "screw the corporations."

Sure, we can all get along without Starbucks and google and ebay, and Philips and Sony, and General Motors and BMW, and rock n roll, and fiction writing. So, fuck 'em all.

[Cormac]

Our chancellor today announced £70 million for a program to make big companies actually pay the level of corporation tax that they should. They claim that this £70m will bring in about £2.4 billion.

1) So they admit the've done fuck-all up to now.

2) In that case, spend £140m and bring in £4.8 billion. Or more for more.

Fuck Starbucks and Google and ebay. This country can function fine without them.

I suppose it all depends if your goal is to see the greater good for the greater number, or whether you just want to "screw the corporations."

Sure, we can all get along without Starbucks and google and ebay, and Philips and Sony, and General Motors and BMW, and rock n roll, and fiction writing. So, fuck 'em all.

Yep.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

There already is a lot of legislation (and agreements with other countries) about "transfer pricing" (which means someone trading in the UK can't set up own company in another jurisdiction to sell to myself at an inflated cost) but most of this is about physical goods - not intellectual (stuff which exists only in thin air!)........the thing with gaps is that they not usually accidental, even if they do come as great surprise to our glorious leaders. The only way to "fix" the current issue is from trans-national agreements..........not to say that the situation can't be "bodged", HMRC has the power to tell a tax payer to "f#ck off and see you in court" using anti-taking the piss legislation...........but that requires the will to do so.

For me, as a died in the wool capitalist!, the issue does need fixing. For me it has long been no surprise that the global brands goble up the highstreet very nicely thank-you.........competing against the benefits of scale is hard enough (purchasing and marketing power) but how the fuck can someone who has to pay the full monty in tax compete against someone who doesn't? simple answer is they can't.

Next step would be the (conveninately) non-doms who have "invested" in the UK - who just happen to have relatives who are UK residents........any surprise that some immigrants prosper in business very nicely? It's not all about keeping it in the family / exploiting own community - it's also about not paying the same tax as the fella who had the bad luck to have no foreign family. But am not holding my breath as that "accident" with the rules also benefits the "Great and the good" who are "internationally mobile" and who could leave Britain - but never seem to. I am sure they do buy a lot of Lattes though.........

[devogue]

I'm going to stop using Google Chrome, and I'm going to use Facebook a bit less as well to make my feelings clear.

[Cormac]

There already is a lot of legislation (and agreements with other countries) about "transfer pricing" (which means someone trading in the UK can't set up own company in another jurisdiction to sell to myself at an inflated cost) but most of this is about physical goods - not intellectual (stuff which exists only in thin air!)........the thing with gaps is that they not usually accidental, even if they do come as great surprise to our glorious leaders. The only way to "fix" the current issue is from trans-national agreements..........not to say that the situation can't be "bodged", HMRC has the power to tell a tax payer to "f#ck off and see you in court" using anti-taking the piss legislation...........but that requires the will to do so.

For me, as a died in the wool capitalist!, the issue does need fixing. For me it has long been no surprise that the global brands goble up the highstreet very nicely thank-you.........competing against the benefits of scale is hard enough (purchasing and marketing power) but how the fuck can someone who has to pay the full monty in tax compete against someone who doesn't? simple answer is they can't.

Next step would be the (conveninately) non-doms who have "invested" in the UK - who just happen to have relatives who are UK residents........any surprise that some immigrants prosper in business very nicely? It's not all about keeping it in the family / exploiting own community - it's also about not paying the same tax as the fella who had the bad luck to have no foreign family. But am not holding my breath as that "accident" with the rules also benefits the "Great and the good" who are "internationally mobile" and who could leave Britain - but never seem to. I am sure they do buy a lot of Lattes though.........

The thing is - don't forget that there are UK companies that do this elsewhere, and the UK benefits from it.

Also, cracking down on this will certainly cause companies to locate elsewhere, and trade directly into the UK. At this time, they cannot be charged corporation tax on such trading.

The benefits of free-trade outweigh the short-term boost of corporation tax. Jobs, income taxes, downstream and upstream businesses deliver more to the economy.

[Jason]

you just want to "screw the corporations."

LOL fucking LOL.

Oh my..

Anyhow, it's practically impossible to get huge corporations like Google and eBay to pay their fair share of taxes because it's cheaper for them to have teams of legal experts that will find loopholes and tax shelters. Corporations are not meant to pay taxes, the working poor are!

[mistermack]

I think the point has been missed here by some.

Our glorious chancellor announced TODAY that they will spend £70 million on stopping these companies avoiding the tax, and that it will bring in £2.4 billion more in tax..

He clearly doesn't agree with the assessment by the previous posters, that all this is perfectly legal, and purely the fault of the system.
I know he's an asshole, but he has a department of experts advising him.

As far as people relocating goes, Starbucks is welcome to relocate in Lichtenstein. The coffee will be cold, by the time they get it here.

[ronmcd]

I think the point has been missed here by some.

Our glorious chancellor announced TODAY that they will spend £70 million on stopping these companies avoiding the tax, and that it will bring in £2.4 billion more in tax..

He clearly doesn't agree with the assessment by the previous posters, that all this is perfectly legal, and purely the fault of the system.
I know he's an asshole, but he has a department of experts advising him.

As far as people relocating goes, Starbucks is welcome to relocate in Lichtenstein. The coffee will be cold, by the time they get it here.

Probably true, he perhaps does expect to get more tax revenue, because there are undoubtedly people and companies not paying their tax: the Jimmy Car wheeze, tax loopholes etc. But I dont believe Starbucks etc are actually doing anything wrong, and wont be affected by what Osbourne is doing.

I heard someone on BBC today say that Osbourne has simply said they are going to put more experts into HMRC with specific expertise in tax avoidance, but it was also mentioned the coalition government has hugely cut and continue to cut HMRC staff. I suspect Osbourne is making a big announcement that means absolutely nothing.

[Cormac]

I think the point has been missed here by some.

Our glorious chancellor announced TODAY that they will spend £70 million on stopping these companies avoiding the tax, and that it will bring in £2.4 billion more in tax..

He clearly doesn't agree with the assessment by the previous posters, that all this is perfectly legal, and purely the fault of the system.
I know he's an asshole, but he has a department of experts advising him.

As far as people relocating goes, Starbucks is welcome to relocate in Lichtenstein. The coffee will be cold, by the time they get it here.

He is a politician. He is full of shit. He is responding to the bays of the mob.

This will backfire on him, and in the not too distant future.

[Seth]

you just want to "screw the corporations."

LOL fucking LOL.

Oh my..

Anyhow, it's practically impossible to get huge corporations like Google and eBay to pay their fair share of taxes because it's cheaper for them to have teams of legal experts that will find loopholes and tax shelters.

Oh, you mean that corporations don't pay unnecessary taxes that are not owed to the government because they take advantage of favorable tax laws and policies duly enacted by the nation's legislature and they lawfully move money and assets to nations that have favorable tax structures.

If you have a complaint about "loopholes" direct it at your legislators, not at the corporations, who are merely doing what the law allows them to do. And capital flows away from taxation like water flows downhill. That's a simple economic fact that "tax shelter" nations take advantage of to attract investment in their nations. If the US would lower its corporate tax rate and provide tax certainty to a greater extent than either China or the EU, all that money would flow downhill into the US, which would solve our recession and put us back on the top of the economic heap.

Unfortunately, the Marxist fuckwit we just elected doesn't want the US to prosper and regain its economic powerhouse status because he is an "anti-colonial" activist who hates the United States and wants to take it down and "give the rest of the world a chance" to seize economic prosperity by feeding off the corpse of the US.

Corporations are not meant to pay taxes, the working poor are!

Corporations pay whatever taxes are lawfully due. No more, no less. Also, INVESTORS pay income tax on all distributions from corporations because they are the OWNERS. So why should their profits be taxed twice...once as the "corporation" and once as an individual. That makes as much sense as taxing a laborer's wages twice...once as an employee of the company and once as an individual.

You really don't understand economics, do you?

[Seth]

I think the point has been missed here by some.

Our glorious chancellor announced TODAY that they will spend £70 million on stopping these companies avoiding the tax, and that it will bring in £2.4 billion more in tax..

He clearly doesn't agree with the assessment by the previous posters, that all this is perfectly legal, and purely the fault of the system.
I know he's an asshole, but he has a department of experts advising him.

As far as people relocating goes, Starbucks is welcome to relocate in Lichtenstein. The coffee will be cold, by the time they get it here.

Tax it too heavily and it won't come at all, neither will anything else.

[Jason]

You really don't understand economics, do you?

Seth, I'd say you're a backwoods fuckwit with a fifth grader's understanding of the subject if I didn't know you are just a nefarious little troll.