Guns Used.....cont

[Seth]

How about NCStar? They bought Tasco right? They offer a lot of inexpensive stuff. Is it complete shite?

Yes. Depending on what you are doing, you want good glass, and good glass often costs far more than the gun you put it on. I have several scopes worth in excess of $3000.

If you're just plinking with a .22, it doesn't matter much. Redfield, Leupold, whatever.

If you're shooting high power and you need repeatable accuracy, you need to spend way more...Leupold, Zeiss, Schmidt & Bender, Nikon, and, of course, the top of the line: US Optics.

[Cormac]

What Seth says about situational awareness is correct.

[Blind groper]

But anyone with the code who is authorized to use the weapon must have immediate access to it. If they decide to shoot themselves with it, oh well, too bad, so sad. It's their right and their life, and it's none of YOUR business.

In fact, a lot of suicides with hand guns are carried out by someone other than the owner. Spouse or child. So secure locking will prevent suicides by someone other than the owner. The owner could still open the safe and top himself, but not others.

Correlation is not causation,

The fact the numbers of guns owned correlates with suicide rate is not proof, but it is very strong evidence. To simply deny it with a wave of the hand is to be utterly irrational.

On the reduction in murder rates in Virginia.
Murder rates are dropping all round the western world. Virginia is no different to the rest of the USA, and the USA is no different to the other 23 richest nations. The reason for this drop in murder rates globally (including Virginia) is the fact that the population is aging. Most murders are carried out by males between 16 and 30 years of age. That portion of the population is dropping as a percentage of the total, and the murder rate is dropping with it. If Virginia alone saw a drop in murder rate, we might try to make something of it. but Virginia is no different to the rest of the west.

[Gallstones]

My old best friend from high school tried to kill herself a couple times, luckily she failed. I've only known of a couple people that were successful, one from hanging, one from a gun. Working in a hospital for a few years, I did see some of the same people over and over again for 'attempted suicide' on suicide watch. Not sure what that says, but it seems to me, a lot of 'attempts' are cries for help.

There are those who play at it and those who mean it.
Those who play become anectdotes of those who wanted "attention".
Those who really, seriously didn't want to exist anymore become memories until they are forgotten.


I know a guy who killed himself by stuffing windows and doors and blowing out the pilot to his heater, waited, then lit a match.

I know people who underestimated the respiratory depression of sedatives and the affects of solvent inhalation.
I know people who shot themselves with weapons they feared, and people who strung themselves from trees.

So nothing anyone posting opinions on the internet about guns and suicide means squat to me.

[Blind groper]

Gallstones

I agree that posting opinions means squat. I post research results and statistics.

[Gallstones]

But anyone with the code who is authorized to use the weapon must have immediate access to it. If they decide to shoot themselves with it, oh well, too bad, so sad. It's their right and their life, and it's none of YOUR business.

In fact, a lot of suicides with hand guns are carried out by someone other than the owner. Spouse or child. So secure locking will prevent suicides by someone other than the owner. The owner could still open the safe and top himself, but not others.


Are you fucking nuts?
Do you read what you write?

Holyfuckingcrap

Please
Stop
posting

[Gallstones]

Gallstones

I agree that posting opinions means squat. I post research results and statistics.

But there is no experience in statistics.

[Kristie]

But anyone with the code who is authorized to use the weapon must have immediate access to it. If they decide to shoot themselves with it, oh well, too bad, so sad. It's their right and their life, and it's none of YOUR business.

In fact, a lot of suicides with hand guns are carried out by someone other than the owner. Spouse or child. So secure locking will prevent suicides by someone other than the owner. The owner could still open the safe and top himself, but not others.


Are you fucking nuts?
Do you read what you write?

Holyfuckingcrap

Please
Stop
posting

Did you read what he wrote? Or are you arguing the fact that he's accurate? I'm sure many suicides are people using someone else's gun.

[Blind groper]

It is quite common for a child to use the parent's hand gun to commit suicide. Locking that hand gun away in a burglar proof safe will safeguard that child.

If you think that a less secure place is OK, you do not know teenage boys. Hide a key, and they will find it. Or else learn to pick a lock.

[Gallstones]

It is quite common for a child to use the parent's hand gun to commit suicide. Locking that hand gun away in a burglar proof safe will safeguard that child.

If you think that a less secure place is OK, you do not know teenage boys. Hide a key, and they will find it. Or else learn to pick a lock.

You are afraid of the reality.
You hide behind statistics and studies thinking you are safe.

[Gallstones]

But anyone with the code who is authorized to use the weapon must have immediate access to it. If they decide to shoot themselves with it, oh well, too bad, so sad. It's their right and their life, and it's none of YOUR business.

In fact, a lot of suicides with hand guns are carried out by someone other than the owner. Spouse or child. So secure locking will prevent suicides by someone other than the owner. The owner could still open the safe and top himself, but not others.


Are you fucking nuts?
Do you read what you write?

Holyfuckingcrap

Please
Stop
posting

Did you read what he wrote? Or are you arguing the fact that he's accurate? I'm sure many suicides are people using someone else's gun.

OK, so. They are theives then.

Everyone is expected to keep their fucking hands off my guns.
As well as every other thing that is mine.

He [Blind groper] says, "a lot of suicides with hand guns are carried out by someone other than the owner."

Make sense to you?

Suicides--by definition--can't be carried out by anyone but the self-deceased.

[amused]

[Blind groper]

You are afraid of the reality.
You hide behind statistics and studies thinking you are safe.

Gallstones.
This does not even make sense.

[FBM]

Gallstones

I agree that posting opinions means squat. I post research results and statistics.

Be honest, now. Sometimes you post data, sometimes you extrapolate, infer and post conjecture based on that data. Just like everyone else here.

For example: You say a lot of suicide survivors report that they later felt glad that they'd failed. You can find statistics on that, I suppose (I haven't looked.) However, you extrapolate from that and conjecture that those who suceed at killing themselves would have later felt the same way, had they survived. The data don't suggest this. You suggest this. Those who succeed at suicide can't report, so there is no data on whether or not they would have later changed their minds. An equally plausible explanation is that those who succeeded succeeded because they were more determined and capable than those who survived, and could very well have resented being prevented from killing themselves had that happened.

So, yes, you do post research and statistics, but then you play freely with interpreting them to fit your agenda. Just like the rest of us.

[Gallstones]

It is quite common for a child to use the parent's hand gun to commit suicide. Locking that hand gun away in a burglar proof safe will safeguard that child.

If you think that a less secure place is OK, you do not know teenage boys. Hide a key, and they will find it. Or else learn to pick a lock.

My son has had an ardent interest in weapons since he was in grade school.
He worked and earned money to buy his own guns..
He has designed weapons and built them and shot them.
He was second in the state for airgun.
He can shoot into the end of a 1/2" copper pipe from his bedroom window.
He is more conscientious than I and lectures me when I do something he doesn't feel comfortable with.
He studies and is more informed than any other gun owner I know.
He is my go to for info on guns.

I know my teenage son and I don't have to lock anything up to protect him.