The UK - better together!

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

I think London should give Scotland to the Palestinians - in 2013............

[Coito ergo sum]

I think London should give Scotland to the Palestinians - in 2013............

Isn't London already Londonistan?

[ronmcd]

Since folks over there are so enlightened that stuff like "nationalism" is passe', why does it matter to people there whether one bit of land is its own nation or not? Shouldn't ya'll just be like "meh...nations...that's so last century! We'll just not worry about such banal and trivial things..."?

That is a very very good question. The key is whether the issue is banal or trivial as you suggest, or could the change being debated be important and potentially make a real difference to the livelihoods of people in Scotland?

What matters in the Scottish Independence debate is not which part of the land is it's own nation. Scotland is already a nation, it is simply in a political union with England (and so Wales & NI) currently so a majority of political decisions are made in Westminister, a minority in Edinburgh. Scottish independence is about moving the rest of those political decisions to Edinburgh. It is not about land, or ethnicity. It is civic nationalism - decision making in Scotland.

Let's use a hypothetical example:
(I am going to assume you are in US going by past threads I have read, apologies if that is not the case)

Would you in US prefer the decisions your particular State makes currently be decided centrally by Washington instead?
Would you in US prefer your local and national US policy decisions that affect you be made by a US government, or by a larger North American government?

Neither of those theoretical scenarios are about land, or even nationalism particularly, they are about the correct level of political decision making. The only people who could decide that would be the people who live in US. That is all that is happening in Scotland. People who live in Scotland (not Scots, in terms of ethnicity) will be voting on whether or not to decide all political issues here in Scotland, rather than having a majority made at Westminister as currently.

[ronmcd]

I think London should give Scotland to the Palestinians - in 2013............

Ah, but London doesn't own Scotland

[odysseus]

Down here many of the Cornish go around squealing about Cornish independence. They'd shit themselves if it actually happened - who is going to be paying for their dole money?

[Coito ergo sum]

Down here many of the Cornish go around squealing about Cornish independence. They'd shit themselves if it actually happened - who is going to be paying for their dole money?

Selfish bastard. Everyone has a right to a basic, minimum subsistence level. How dare you begrudge them that?

[Rum]

[Audley Strange]

We've also been those tyrants, destroyed systems of democracy to suit business interests, sold off that revolutionised industry and came out of the enlightenment thicker and more indolent.

Wake up Ben you daft cunt, if there are reasons to stay in the union, make them about now, at this point the whole thing is just some foggy memories of a glorious past.

John of Glasgow.

[Rum]

I would have thought the historical relationship was a valid reason (one of many) on which to base a decent union.

[Jason]

How would a relationship being historical have any bearing whatsoever on whether or not the continuation of that relationship is a good thing?

Example: Wife wants to divorce husband who constantly gets drunk, lays about, and beats her. Judge denies her divorce because they've been through so much 'together' it's historical (he wasn't always a drunken layabout wifebeater and they had some really good times back in the early days).

[Rum]

..and how exactly does a marriage relationship remotely equate to the links between two countries? You aren't comparing like with like.

[Jason]

I would have thought the historical relationship was a valid reason (one of many) on which to base a decent union.

..and how exactly does a marriage relationship remotely equate to the links between two countries? You aren't comparing like with like.

I'll address your silly question anyway. The fact that two countries have been through x, y, and z in the past has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not their current relationship is good for one or both. That should be obvious.

The 'historical relationship' is so much propaganda crap. I'm surprised you bought into it.

[Audley Strange]

I would have thought the historical relationship was a valid reason (one of many) on which to base a decent union.

Sounds like pleading from an estranged partner. "But remember when... " "and that time we..." "we had good times."

For most of our union we were equally as monstrous as awesome, lets NOT bring that up. Let's instead get by the considerations on both sides that pander to Bannockburn and Glencoe and The Empire and all the glorious things that try to divert us from the ugly truth. Look at us now.

We have an openly corrupted system of governance, corrupted by a media who also corrupted members of the police. The entire archaic establishment that was founded for and to support that union has been evinced to be out of date and useless if not in fact detrimental. We live in the aftermath, a slowly eroding shit stain on the side of Europe popular for sneering, negativity, conflict T.V. the X factor, chips and an unhealthy desire never to converse about our issues in any meaningful way.

I think it a perfect time for Scotland to re-appraise it's relationship with England.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

Seems that the English couldn't even find anyone capable of running own economy - so settled on a Canuck.....to be fair at least the English have acknowledged that the UK is all a bit too complicated for them to run. Maybe smaller would help them in the future?

So is the Referendum now going to be about independence from Canada?

[Jason]

No.. you can join us if you like though. We've already got New Scotland so you can be Old Scotland. We'll even send a gift basket of Mounties, weed, and maple syrup.