Guns used for lawful self defense

[Woodbutcher]

Seth engages in activity that some people call trolling. He may or may not actually hold the views that he argues but that won't stop him defending those views passionately. Sometimes I think he just loves a good sparring match for its own sake.
We do not, at this time, have a policy about appraisals of poster's mental health, but to be on the safe side and make the mod's lives easier, it might be a good idea to stick to attacking content and let the reader draw their own conclusions about the poster's state of mind.


This has been a Robert_S pueblick cervix announcement.

Thank you all for your attention.

So, when Seth is being argumentative and insulting, it's not real but artificial and contrived. It would be wrong to call him a prick then, the correct term would be "dildo".

[Kristie]

Seth engages in activity that some people call trolling. He may or may not actually hold the views that he argues but that won't stop him defending those views passionately. Sometimes I think he just loves a good sparring match for its own sake.
We do not, at this time, have a policy about appraisals of poster's mental health, but to be on the safe side and make the mod's lives easier, it might be a good idea to stick to attacking content and let the reader draw their own conclusions about the poster's state of mind.


This has been a Robert_S pueblick cervix announcement.

Thank you all for your attention.

So, when Seth is being argumentative and insulting, it's not real but artificial and contrived. It would be wrong to call him a prick then, the correct term would be "dildo".

[Seth]

Hemenway is an ignorant hoplophobe boob with an anti-gun bias and personal agenda as is the Harvard group that pontificates on the subject every so often, and everybody knows it.

Hemenway is actually a highly regarded expert in his field working for Harvard University and publishing in reputable peer reviewed journals.

Only in left-wing anti-gun circles, where anyone who says anything negative about guns is automatically an "expert."

What you really mean, Seth, is that any reference that you do not like, you will wave away with unsupported assertions and personal opinion. With that attitude, I really cannot take anything you say seriously.

Who cares what you think? The fact remains that we have the guns and you don't, so whine all you like, you're still going to be both impotent and wrong.

As I have said before, this attitude is religious in nature. It is taken on blind faith, and any contrary evidence is considered as blasphemy to be rejected without thought. I might just as well go onto a religious forum and argue that Jesus was just a man. The responses I get will be just as intelligent.

You haven't produced any contrary evidence, you've produced long-debunked anti-gun hoplophobe propaganda and you've deliberately and mendaciously ignored any data that runs counter to your agenda, so you are getting what your lame, ignorant arguments deserve.

[Seth]

Folks, tempers are getting frayed here; it's time for all participants to treat others with opposing views with a little more respect. This is a general reminder of our Play Nice rule:

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3449

That's it? You fucking hypocrite.

[Blind groper]

You haven't produced any contrary evidence, you've produced long-debunked anti-gun hoplophobe propaganda and you've deliberately and mendaciously ignored any data that runs counter to your agenda, so you are getting what your lame, ignorant arguments deserve.

Seth

I have produced heaps of evidence. However, you automatically describe any evidence I produce in those terms, even if it is published in reputable peer reviewed journals, written by reputable university researchers, and accompanied by an abundance of good statistical data.

The problem is not my evidence. The problem is that your beliefs are religious in nature, meaning you automatically define any opposing argument as blasphemy, and reject it without properly considering the evidence.

And I have presented contrary evidence for each and every rational argument you have come up with. All two of them.

[aspire1670]

Folks, tempers are getting frayed here; it's time for all participants to treat others with opposing views with a little more respect. This is a general reminder of our Play Nice rule:

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3449

That's it? You fucking hypocrite.

You are a legend in your own basement, Seth.

[mozg]

So Kristie, what about the different standards, staff allowing Blind groper to post insult after insult with no mod action, while suspending Seth for in kind?

You don't actually believe the rules will ever apply to those who insult Americans and firearm owners, do you?

[Seth]

You haven't produced any contrary evidence, you've produced long-debunked anti-gun hoplophobe propaganda and you've deliberately and mendaciously ignored any data that runs counter to your agenda, so you are getting what your lame, ignorant arguments deserve.

Seth

I have produced heaps of evidence. However, you automatically describe any evidence I produce in those terms, even if it is published in reputable peer reviewed journals, written by reputable university researchers, and accompanied by an abundance of good statistical data.

The problem is not my evidence. The problem is that your beliefs are religious in nature, meaning you automatically define any opposing argument as blasphemy, and reject it without properly considering the evidence.

And I have presented contrary evidence for each and every rational argument you have come up with. All two of them.

No, it means that all your citations have been debunked and disproven by experts, and by factual circumstances.

[FBM]

So Kristie, what about the different standards, staff allowing Blind groper to post insult after insult with no mod action, while suspending Seth for in kind?

You don't actually believe the rules will ever apply to those who insult Americans and firearm owners, do you?

I'd have to do a head count and polling to make sure, but I think most of staff are anti-gun and non-American. Or some combination of those.

[Blind groper]

To those who think I should be punished for insulting behaviour.....

I try not to use obscenities, though I am fond of the term 'bullshit' which has the great virtue of clear cut communication. Everyone knows what it means. Others use obscenities extremely frequently.

I think the worst I have done on this thread was suggest that Seth may well be a psychopath. That was not intended to be a gratuitous insult. I just looked at his posts and saw a pattern there that cried out "psychopath!" Of course, it is possible I might be wrong, but I was reporting an honest feeling. I probably should have kept my mouth shut (or keyboard untouched).

I try to direct my arguments at other peoples ideas rather than at the people themselves. This, too, gets a lot of people upset. If I claim that American gun culture is very wrong, then I am called 'anti-American'. If I call that culture barbaric, then someone will claim I insulted people by calling them barbaric.

Oh well. I will leave any decision to the mods, and trust to their wisdom.

I do appreciate the fact that the moderators on this forum are generally quite tolerant. I know that the language used here, and some of the ad hom attacks would attract immediate censure on many other forums. I am thick skinned enough that, when I am attacked myself, it just rolls off me, like the water off the ducks back. In fact, some of the attacks I find quite amusing. Especially when Seth indulges in attack. He is so far over the top it is quite farcical and funny.

[FBM]

Not just you, Bg, but I think it's a good idea to avoid questioning another person's mental state. It doesn't add anything constructive to the debate, anyway, and is easily taken as an ad hom. Just my 2p.

[klr]

To those who think I should be punished for insulting behaviour.....

I try not to use obscenities, though I am fond of the term 'bullshit' which has the great virtue of clear cut communication. Everyone knows what it means. Others use obscenities extremely frequently.

I think the worst I have done on this thread was suggest that Seth may well be a psychopath. That was not intended to be a gratuitous insult. I just looked at his posts and saw a pattern there that cried out "psychopath!" Of course, it is possible I might be wrong, but I was reporting an honest feeling. I probably should have kept my mouth shut (or keyboard untouched).

I try to direct my arguments at other peoples ideas rather than at the people themselves. This, too, gets a lot of people upset. If I claim that American gun culture is very wrong, then I am called 'anti-American'. If I call that culture barbaric, then someone will claim I insulted people by calling them barbaric.

Oh well. I will leave any decision to the mods, and trust to their wisdom.

I do appreciate the fact that the moderators on this forum are generally quite tolerant. I know that the language used here, and some of the ad hom attacks would attract immediate censure on many other forums. I am thick skinned enough that, when I am attacked myself, it just rolls off me, like the water off the ducks back. In fact, some of the attacks I find quite amusing. Especially when Seth indulges in attack. He is so far over the top it is quite farcical and funny.

My own 2c - personal perspective, but also as a member of staff having to deal with this:

Repeated in multiple posts over an extended time, it tends to acquire a particular insulting resonance. It's also ad hominem and very directly targeted at a specific individual. Even if one were to speak in more general and roundabout terms ("this is psychopathic behaviour"), repeated usage would tend to make it look like attacking the individual by some form of indirection.

Of course, that standard of forum behaviour should apply to everyone ...

I don't want to start an extended discussion in this thread myself, but people are free to start their own thread in the "In depth forum related discussion" if they wish to.

[Blind groper]

Point taken guys.

[Gallstones]

Oh fucking hell, is this thread to become a snorefest?

See my new gun?
It was handled last evening [at dinner] by hands I would like to have handle................

And for those of you who might be concerned, all the handling happened before we got well into the beer.
Although there was some handling that didn't........


Way handsome, ain't it?
Don't you just want to close that slide, pick it up and pull the trigger?

[Gallstones]

So Kristie, what about the different standards, staff allowing Blind groper to post insult after insult with no mod action, while suspending Seth for in kind?

You don't actually believe the rules will ever apply to those who insult Americans and firearm owners, do you?

No I don't, it's why I bring it up.