Israel/Palestine; has the shit finally hit the fan?

[Gerald McGrew]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/2 ... 05665.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-573 ... i-kibbutz/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_We ... ss_of_land

http://www.e-ir.info/2010/10/06/the-imp ... -conflict/

[Coito ergo sum]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/2 ... 05665.html

No more Jews in Jerusalem! The area they're talking about there is in Gilo, which was captured by the Israelis in the Six Day War in 1967.

Not really an "objection" I'd like to be associated with, all due respect to the "EU Foreign Affairs Coordinator" Catherine Ashton. I mean, what? Jews can't live there, but if they convert to Islam they can? Fuck that. That's like saying "no more housing for Muslims in Dearborn Michigan!" Or, "Stop letting Mexicans move to San Diego!"

[Gerald McGrew]

Yeah...what a surprise...."Fuck you! Fuck you! Fuck you!"

You should just make that your sig.

[cronus]

There's no cure for the middle east. We'll have to wait until airborne ebola decimates the human race a few times over and then peace will come.

[Blind groper]

If the Arabs lay down their weapons, there will be no war. If the Israelis lay down their weapons, there will be no Israel.

Those are not the options. Neither will lay down their weapons.

I was most disapponted to see Obama saying that the USA will support Israel, since Israel is the greater offender. Israel's actions are not simple defense. While I do not support Hamas with its rocket attacks, it is worth remembering that those rocket attacks are almost ineffective. They harm the occasional home, but the death toll is miniscule. Israel, though, kills Palestinians by the dozens or by the hundreds.

Hamas are, of course, a bunch of blithering idiots. But do their amateurish attacks warrant hundreds of innocent Palestinians, who just want to make a reasonable life for themselves, being maimed or killed?

Israel has never shown any real determination to treat Palestinians well, or to deal with their aspiration for a sovereign, and independent homeland. until Israel does this, the killing will go on.

[Ian]

This conversation needs more Gawd.

[Coito ergo sum]

If the Arabs lay down their weapons, there will be no war. If the Israelis lay down their weapons, there will be no Israel.

Those are not the options. Neither will lay down their weapons.

I was most disapponted to see Obama saying that the USA will support Israel, since Israel is the greater offender. Israel's actions are not simple defense. While I do not support Hamas with its rocket attacks, it is worth remembering that those rocket attacks are almost ineffective. They harm the occasional home, but the death toll is miniscule. Israel, though, kills Palestinians by the dozens or by the hundreds.

That doesn't make them the greater offender. They're responding to Palestinian attacks. If the Palestinians would not fire the rockets into Israel, Israel wouldn't fire at them. However, what happens is Hamas gets more and more active with the rockets - back up to 1,000 rockets this year -- 1,000 rockets into a country the size of New Jersey. What do you think the UK would do if Argentina lobbed 1000 "largely ineffective" rockets (only killing a few people and damaging some houses) into the Falklands?

Hamas are, of course, a bunch of blithering idiots. But do their amateurish attacks warrant hundreds of innocent Palestinians, who just want to make a reasonable life for themselves, being maimed or killed?

it's easy for us to say, not living there, how many "amateurish" rocket attacks we'd put up with before we'd want something done about them.

Israel has never shown any real determination to treat Palestinians well, or to deal with their aspiration for a sovereign, and independent homeland. until Israel does this, the killing will go on.

Of course they have -- the 21% of the Israeli population that is Arab is treated very well. Israeli Jews do not go around blowing them up. They live lives, earn livings, raise families and participate in politics. If Israel wanted to wipe out Arabs, why wouldn't they be doing it within their own borders?

[Audley Strange]

Can't we all agree though that they'd all be better off meeting their creator?

[That Alien Guy.]

Can't we all agree though that they'd all be better off meeting their creator?

Fronxing killjoy. We've got billions on pay per view live feed. The whole Galaxy is watching this and laughing at you.

[Blind groper]

If Israel wanted to wipe out Arabs, why wouldn't they be doing it within their own borders?

No one has suggested that Israel wanted to wipe out Arabs.

However, Israel has consistently and persistently refused to consider giving the Palestinians their own country. Since they stole Palestine off the Palestinians in the first place, this puts Israel firmly in the wrong. I have no problem understanding why Hamas is so filled with hate. In their place, I would be too. Since Israel is the first, and consistently greatest offender, it is up to Israel to make the big move. Which they refuse to do.

[pErvinalia]

It's pretty evident who the aggressors are in this dispute. One side wants the other side pushed into the sea and "exterminated," and the "regime obliterated" and whatnot. One side openly calls for the destruction of the other. Which side is which?

As I said, I'm fairly certain I read that Hamas changed its charter to get rid of the 'rid the middle east of Israel' thing. Even putting that aside, you only have to look at the death count and shrinking Palestinian lands to see which side is actually exterminating the other. Hint - It's Israel.

This is not correct, since the the Palestinian Arab population has done noting but increase, both inside and outside of Israel, over the last 48 year. There is no "exterminating" of Arabs going on.

It doesn't matter how many of them there are, if they have no land to live on.

[That Alien Guy.]

Push them into the sea then, are you not the kind of chimps that worship environmental adaptation?

[pErvinalia]

The point of the map (regardless of any minor inaccuracies) is the trend.

Minor? It's false.

So you deny that Israel has been gradually increasing it's occupied lands over the years, and that it is in breach of numerous UN resolutions which state exactly that?

And regardless of the wall of text above, Israel is in violation of shitloads of UN resolutions regarding the occupation of Palestinian land.

Wall of text? Gimme a break. It's just putting in context what you completely ignore. The history and the reality of the situation. You acknowledged that the situation is complex, but then your position on it is incredibly simplistic, with that utterly dopey map that pretends that there was some country of Palestine that the evil Jews have usurped and driven them out into these little islands of territory in the West Bank. That just, quite simply, is not what happened. It's not reality. It's propaganda.

So, you're telling me that this land wasn't inhabitated by Palestinian people before the Balfour declaration plonked another country in the middle of their lands? And you are further telling me that Israel hasn't illegally encroached on the territory of the Palestinians after 1947?

[pErvinalia]

Here is Jordan after 1950 when it Annexed the West Bank.



It was like that until 1967, when the Arab countries started the 6 Day War, and Jordan lost the West Bank to Israel in the conflict.

And what does that have to do with Israel occupying Palestinian lands, and being in violation of a good number of UN resolutions?

[pErvinalia]

And, as for the economy, if the Palestinians would spend the kind of effort they expend in trying to massacre Jews into building an economy, they might do well.

Gaza is blockaded by Israel you dope. There's very little they can do.