Israel/Palestine; has the shit finally hit the fan?

[Audley Strange]

Olive oil? I've mentioned it before. As part of their annexation program the Israeli government destroys Palestinian-owned Olive farms destroying their sole means of income in the process.

This exactly what happens when you do not accept the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ into you hearts.

[cronus]

Olive oil? I've mentioned it before. As part of their annexation program the Israeli government destroys Palestinian-owned Olive farms destroying their sole means of income in the process.

This exactly what happens when you do not accept the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ into you hearts.

After WW2 the Japanese gave up on warfare and made it big in electronics. Just saying, a little imagination and move on from the olive oil? Could go into rocket research and make it big with what they already know?

[Seth]

Olive oil? I've mentioned it before. As part of their annexation program the Israeli government destroys Palestinian-owned Olive farms destroying their sole means of income in the process.

Good. That ought to make the racist warmongering Islamic terrorist cocksuckers leave...along with a few thousand rounds of 155mm artillery and some napalm.

And this time Israel should never give back a single square foot of what they conquer.

[Blind groper]

I find Seth's views here very weird.
Seth has declared with vehemence how he would defend his 'rights' at gun point against any threat. But when the Palestinians fight back against the people who stole their country, and their allies, he condemns them. Utterly bizarre.

[devogue]

Olive oil? I've mentioned it before. As part of their annexation program the Israeli government destroys Palestinian-owned Olive farms destroying their sole means of income in the process.

Good. That ought to make the racist warmongering Islamic terrorist cocksuckers leave...along with a few thousand rounds of 155mm artillery and some napalm.

And this time Israel should never give back a single square foot of what they conquer.

But I love olive oil.

[JimC]

Olive oil? I've mentioned it before. As part of their annexation program the Israeli government destroys Palestinian-owned Olive farms destroying their sole means of income in the process.

Good. That ought to make the racist warmongering Islamic terrorist cocksuckers leave...along with a few thousand rounds of 155mm artillery and some napalm.

And this time Israel should never give back a single square foot of what they conquer.

But I love olive oil.

I dub thee Popeye...

[Svartalf]

[pErvinalia]

No they don't. If they had true democracy, then that might be a different matter. But even then, only 50% would be getting the leaders they deserve. Except in the case of Israel, where all major parties support illegal occupation.

Human rights parasites lawyers will get their cut either way after the killing stops. Not that it does for long round those parts. Real people would overthrow a leadership they didn't want so your argument doesn't really hold up does it?

Yeah, just "overthrow the leadership". It's so easy to tap that out of your keyboard. I wonder if it is that simple in reality?

[JimC]

Realistically, the whole thing is one of those horrible equilibria where no move to a more positive outcome is favoured...

Whatever we, or the rest of the world may pontificate, the killing will continue...

[pErvinalia]

No they don't. If they had true democracy, then that might be a different matter. But even then, only 50% would be getting the leaders they deserve. Except in the case of Israel, where all major parties support illegal occupation.

What's a true democracy, is is found amongst Scotsmen?

Well, pretty much. I don't know the state of all civic systems around the world, but the ones I am familiar with certainly aren't democracy in the sense that it is government for the people. I guess Switzerland or perhaps Iceland and a few others might have a pretty good facsimile of democracy. Either way, systems dominated by corporations and/or the military are highly likely to be fucking poor democracies.

Either way, I have no problem with holding Israeli citizens responsible for their government's actions, as pretty much all major parties are the same in regards to occupation. I.e. they are in breach of UN thingo's (can't think of the name right now.. ) and they have routinely killed many hundreds of civilians, including children. That country deserves what it's eventually got coming to it (i.e. when the US cuts off the gravy, they are fucked).

[pErvinalia]

The only way it gets resolved is if both sides are willing to let go of the past and stop trying to exact revenge for the last thing the other guys did.

Essentially you are spot on here. But to suggest that there is no moral equivalence, like you've hinted in the bit before this, is wrong.

[pErvinalia]

Olive oil? I've mentioned it before. As part of their annexation program the Israeli government destroys Palestinian-owned Olive farms destroying their sole means of income in the process.

This exactly what happens when you do not accept the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ into you hearts.

After WW2 the Japanese gave up on warfare and made it big in electronics. Just saying, a little imagination and move on from the olive oil? Could go into rocket research and make it big with what they already know?

WTF?!? They are blockade by Israel. They can't do ANYTHING at all, except be subjugated.

[pErvinalia]

I find Seth's views here very weird.
Seth has declared with vehemence how he would defend his 'rights' at gun point against any threat. But when the Palestinians fight back against the people who stole their country, and their allies, he condemns them. Utterly bizarre.

It's not really, when you have debated against Seth as long as I have. He holds a spectacular number of cognitive dissonances. He acts like there is a principle behind his rhetoric, but when the holes and contradictions are pointed out, it becomes very clear what is going on. I'm not sure why he has a hard on for the Israeli's. Perhaps he's Jewish, or perhaps he knows some Jew's. Or perhaps he is awed by their military dominance of the region. Actually, probably the latter. It's just a gun debate, except with bigger and more impressive guns.

[pErvinalia]

Realistically, the whole thing is one of those horrible equilibria where no move to a more positive outcome is favoured...

Whatever we, or the rest of the world may pontificate, the killing will continue...

Not true. If the Americans pontificated the other way, the killing could stop in a flash. But the US won't allow that, for whatever reason (some have said 'oil' but I don't get that argument - the US gets plenty of easy oil out of the Islamic nightmare state of Saudi Arabia without a problem).

[JimC]

Realistically, the whole thing is one of those horrible equilibria where no move to a more positive outcome is favoured...

Whatever we, or the rest of the world may pontificate, the killing will continue...

Not true. If the Americans pontificated the other way, the killing could stop in a flash. But the US won't allow that, for whatever reason (some have said 'oil' but I don't get that argument - the US gets plenty of easy oil out of the Islamic nightmare state of Saudi Arabia without a problem).

My analysis included the paralysis of the world in terms of political action. No US President will ever be able to be seen to abandon Israel...

But, as much as it is true that Israel, and its fanatical settlers, have behaved abominably towards the Palestinians in the territory it controls, there remains the reality that the state of Israel exists, and will not accept any overtures by groups whose basic premise is "no more Israel"

No amount of ideological posturing by any side will alter the realpolitik of the situation...