"Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post Reply
User avatar
Gerald McGrew
Posts: 611
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm
About me: Fisker of Men
Location: Pacific Northwest
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:56 am

"I don't give a fuck how much it saves in the long run!!"

All righty then. And now we see why people are concerned about conservative rage being turned towards poor people.
If you don't like being called "stupid", then stop saying stupid things.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:24 am

Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60974
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:06 am

laklak wrote:I agree that the demonization of the poor is a stupid thing to do and it's being done for slimy political ends. There is some truth to it, though.
Fuck that, Lak. There's far worse sucking at the government teat going on at the top end of town. The numbers fucking dwarf anything the poor are involved in. When the pigs get their fat snouts out of the trough, then i'll campaign for the tiny percentage of scroungers at the bottom end to get their shit together.

Fuck.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60974
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:09 am

Gerald McGrew wrote:No doubt that some people make stupid choices. But hopefully in this country we don't let people starve because of them.

My conservative friends often bitch about seeing the person in front of them in a check-out line using food stamps or a card or something, while also having a nice handbag, car, or shoes. But when I point out that they really have no idea how that person got those things...were they gifts, purchased when things were better, bought at a garage sale...they kind of fumble for answers. It's hard to come to terms with the possibility that your assumptions may be coloring your perception of a situation.

Plus, what about the public assistance for corporations and the very rich? If someone is pissed off about a person getting food stamps also having an XBox, why aren't they equally pissed off at "too big to fail banks" getting billions of taxpayer dollars? Or oil companies getting tax breaks while breaking all-time profit margins? Or multi-millionaires like Romney paying lower tax rates than they are?

Interesting how we all pick and choose who and what to be angry over.
Exactly! And it fucking pisses me off. We are being robbed blind by these rich fuckers that squirrel their money away in tax havens. I think I recall the global figure is something like $14 TRILLION! But, fuck, we have to make sure some poor person has to be shamed like a motherfucker for taking government assistance. I'd sooner kill a rich person than shame a poor person.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60974
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:11 am

Warren Dew wrote:As soon as the Democrats stop demonizing the makers, I'm sure the Republicans will quit demonizing the takers.
Fuck that too. This myth that rich people are the "makers" is fucking bollocks. Working chumps are the fucking makers. Christ. This is why I don't post on economic/political matters any more. The stupid myths that people cling to make me want to punch some cunt through my computer monitor.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:17 am

Warren Dew wrote:As soon as the Democrats stop demonizing the makers, I'm sure the Republicans will quit demonizing the takers.
Why should we trust them? They've fucked us endless times already. Zero trust at this point. And I see no reason to start.
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 21022
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by laklak » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:33 am

rEv, did you miss my post about bailing out banks and companies? Fuck them, let them fail. Subsidies to oil companies? Fuck that, let the prices rise. I want the sucking to stop from top to bottom. Shit, I'm a Libertarian, I don't want ANY government money going to private industry outside contracts and purchases.

Want to tax rich people? I don't care, go for it, they mean nothing to me. But the whole tax the rich and fix the problem meme is bullshit, a few percentage points on people earning a mil or more isn't going to do shit, it's a political ploy, a feel-good sop to the people that are REALLY going to get it in the neck, the middle class. Repealing the Bush tax cuts is going to hurt the poor and middle class far more than it's going to hurt the rich, do you think it's going to make a difference to Romney or Trump if their marginal rate is 4 or 5 percentage points higher? Not a chance, they'll just hire another bank of tax accountants. The people it's going to hurt are the folks who can't afford tax accountants, for whom an additional 3 or 4 or 5 grand a year is a major hit. And subsidizing their health insurance premiums isn't going to make up for it.

I honestly don't care how much free shit we give to people. We want single payer, fine. We want free university, fine. Fuck, free pizza and beer every Friday, it's fine with me. But - don't fucking BORROW money to do it. Raise the tax rates. We have to live within our means and stop mortgaging my kid's future. That's what we're doing with these spend spend spend policies. It isn't just Obama, though he's certainly added his fair share. Bush spent money like a drunk sailor on Patpong road.

The whole system is FUBAR.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

User avatar
Drewish
I'm with stupid /\
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Drewish » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 am

You know there is a party for people who hate free loaders AND corporate thieves: link
Nobody expects me...

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60974
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:09 am

laklak wrote:rEv, did you miss my post about bailing out banks and companies? Fuck them, let them fail. Subsidies to oil companies? Fuck that, let the prices rise. I want the sucking to stop from top to bottom. Shit, I'm a Libertarian, I don't want ANY government money going to private industry outside contracts and purchases.
What annoys me about it all, though, is that libertarians, conservatives and some sensationalist segments of the media focus most of their energies on the poor. The amounts of money we are talking about with the poor are so small compared to the amounts at the top end of the town, that it makes no sense whatsoever to even mention the poor. But what it shows is that for a lot of people it's either a moral issue (i.e. they can't stand the idea that people should get something for nothing, even if that means letting them die (in some extremist cases)), or it's based on the myth that poor and rich people are the way they are due to relative work ethic or, even worse, due to some social Darwinistic principle. In the former, they either don't know that the top end of town receives way more amounts of government money in the forum of subsidies and tax breaks; or they do, and they are like Warren Dew and think that they deserve that break, because they are the so-called "wealth creators". In the case of the latter (i.e. the social darwinists), they are idiotic vermin that should be exterminated for the risk they pose to a proper functioning society.
Want to tax rich people? I don't care, go for it, they mean nothing to me. But the whole tax the rich and fix the problem meme is bullshit, a few percentage points on people earning a mil or more isn't going to do shit, it's a political ploy, a feel-good sop to the people that are REALLY going to get it in the neck, the middle class. Repealing the Bush tax cuts is going to hurt the poor and middle class far more than it's going to hurt the rich, do you think it's going to make a difference to Romney or Trump if their marginal rate is 4 or 5 percentage points higher? Not a chance, they'll just hire another bank of tax accountants. The people it's going to hurt are the folks who can't afford tax accountants, for whom an additional 3 or 4 or 5 grand a year is a major hit. And subsidizing their health insurance premiums isn't going to make up for it.
Clearly we need to close tax loopholes in that case. Either way, there has been a steady redistribution of wealth UPWARDS for the last 30 or more years. And big chunks of that have been squirreled away in offshore accounts, or flushed down the plughole in valueless financial shenanigans. That's fucking STEALING from our societies. They are far bigger thieves than the petty criminals that fear-mongering governments and a pathetic media concentrate on.
I honestly don't care how much free shit we give to people. We want single payer, fine. We want free university, fine. Fuck, free pizza and beer every Friday, it's fine with me. But - don't fucking BORROW money to do it. Raise the tax rates. We have to live within our means and stop mortgaging my kid's future.
I agree. Although, I'm not as philosophically opposed to borrowing as you probably are. As long as there can be seen to be some investment and return on that investment, then it is worth it.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 51705
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 8-34-20
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Tero » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:10 am

Warren Dew wrote:As soon as the Democrats stop demonizing the makers, I'm sure the Republicans will quit demonizing the takers.
:rollin:

User avatar
cronus
Black Market Analyst
Posts: 18122
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:09 pm
About me: Illis quos amo deserviam
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by cronus » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:45 am

'Merica is all takers. Even the things its making is about taking. :coffee:

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
What will the world be like after its ruler is removed?

User avatar
Jason
Destroyer of words
Posts: 17782
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:46 pm
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Jason » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:05 am

I'm a little bit on the libertarian side on some things, but income subsidy for people who need it isn't one of them. I'd like to see some of these people who talk about 'free loaders' on the down and out not looking for a hand up.

User avatar
Gerald McGrew
Posts: 611
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:32 pm
About me: Fisker of Men
Location: Pacific Northwest
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Gerald McGrew » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:37 pm

It's interesting to me how when you debate religious conservatives, they quickly resort to passive-aggressive behavior, e.g. "One day you'll have to stand before God and answer for all this" as if it's some sort of valid rebuttal. But when you debate non-religious conservatives, you get "Fuck you! Fuck you! Fuck you!" as if that's a valid rebuttal.

Both are indicative of the "conservative rage" mentioned in the OP. Further, psychological profiles have shown that conservatism is correlated with a tendency to the "dark triad" of personality traits, machiavellianism, narcissism, and psychopathy.

http://scienceprogressaction.org/inters ... ty-traits/

The fact that this rage is now being directed at the poor is what concerns the author in the OP.
If you don't like being called "stupid", then stop saying stupid things.

User avatar
Drewish
I'm with stupid /\
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Drewish » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:45 pm

No, this rage is directed at self-righteous twats like yourself. :prof:
Nobody expects me...

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: "Makers vs. Takers" and why it's dangerous

Post by Seth » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:53 pm

laklak wrote:I agree that the demonization of the poor is a stupid thing to do and it's being done for slimy political ends. There is some truth to it, though. I do think that if you're farting about on the internet on your smart phone or watching pay-per-view on your 60 inch flat screen you don't need food stamps. It's a question of priorities, and an inability to prioritize is something I see as a major problem. It certainly isn't just poor people. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who overextended and bought ginormous houses that ate up half of their income and now can't make the payments. My daughters do it - can't pay their car insurance because they have to have the latest cell phone or that really cute pair of boots. I got suckered into cosigning a car loan for my oldest - free advice here - don't do that.

I don't know what the answer is, doing something like any of those things simply never would have occurred to me. How did I manage to end up with a surfeit of self-discipline and so many people simply have none? I tried to raise my kids as much like I was raised as possible, they went to decent schools and got a reasonable education. So what's the difference?
How about the answer is that poor people should be "made uncomfortable in their poverty" in order to stimulate them to personal achievement and economic success. Ben Franklin recommended that more than 200 years ago.

If you're so desperately poor that you need food stamps, then you should be required to stand in a bread line two or three times a day and be thankful for the soup and crust you get. I don't agree with EBT cards that can be used to buy luxuries or vices rather than food. I think those who do not want to work should be humiliated and scorned by making a public spectacle of them so that they will be induced to go to work and become honest, tax-paying citizens. They should not be given the luxury of sitting around in their rent-controlled public housing apartment eating Twinkies, smoking crack and watching Dr. Phil on their aforesaid flatscreen TV with 160 cable channels. At the very least they should have to get off their asses three times a day to go stand in line at the soup kitchen, where they can be handed a list of employers looking for unskilled menial laborers before they get fed...after they turn in their chits from the aforesaid employers who have refused them work after they went and applied that day.

No tickee, no eatee.

Now, the disabled who are UNABLE to work, that's an entirely different thing.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 20 guests