The Scottish Question....

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

Thought it deserved own thread. Written by Salmond and still to be approved by the Electoral Commission:-

People will be asked to vote "yes" or "no" to the question: "Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country?"


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-s ... s-20256108

I think a very cleverly witten question - Salmond writing the question was his big win .

Do you think it is "fair"?

[Robert_S]

I think Scotland ought to be given full statehood. The extra star on the US flag would mean everyone has to go out and buy new ones, thus creating many new jobs.

[PsychoSerenity]

The trouble with referendums like this, is it's very easy to word questions in such a way that suggestible, undecided or ignorant people, can easily be influenced. In this one the use of the word "agree" means anyone going in with a passive mindset is likely to choose "yes", whereas if it were replaced with the more active "think" they would likely choose "no".

The referendum we had for electoral reform was buggered about with in similar ways (not to mention all the misinformation and fallacies used in the campaigns).

Personally I'd rather have a short multiple choice test before the actual question, to see if you know what you're talking about, and if you don't get it right, your vote isn't counted. Democracy requires an educated and informed electorate.

[Rum]

Salmond is a slippery and in my view slimy political operator. He has come up with a question that most Scottish people would find hard to say no to. You sound pretty anti Scotland to say no to that question.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

The trouble with referendums like this, is it's very easy to word questions in such a way that suggestible, undecided or ignorant people, can easily be influenced. In this one the use of the word "agree" means anyone going in with a passive mindset is likely to choose "yes", whereas if it were replaced with the more active "think" they would likely choose "no".

I am sure that Salmond never thought of that

Personally I'd rather have a short multiple choice test before the actual question, to see if you know what you're talking about, and if you don't get it right, your vote isn't counted. Democracy requires an educated and informed electorate.

I disagree......Western style democracy does not require an educated and informed electorate, indeed it is based on the exact opposite.

[PsychoSerenity]

Personally I'd rather have a short multiple choice test before the actual question, to see if you know what you're talking about, and if you don't get it right, your vote isn't counted. Democracy requires an educated and informed electorate.

I disagree......Western style democracy does not require an educated and informed electorate, indeed it is based on the exact opposite.

Yeah and I wouldn't really call what we've got democracy.

[mistermack]

Alex Salmond IS slimy, and will cheat at every opportunity, and the question is just another example of that.

My own worry is that Cameron doesn't seem to care. Which makes me wonder what he REALLY wants.
You might hope that the question will get debated and cut to bits by the no campaign, but even so, plenty of dummies might fall for the concealed lie within it.

[Jesus_of_Nazareth]

I am sure that Salmond has some back up questions.......

....once he has milked London's objections for all they are worth!

"Do you want to be free of London based chinless wonders?"

[ronmcd]

Of course it is fair. The question suggested by the opposition parties expert panel was as follows:

"Scotland should become an independent state", with voters being asked to "agree" or "disagree".

Is there a difference? I guess we will find out when the Electoral Commission test and give advice to the Scottish Parliament on the question, as happens in every UK referendum, same rules apply. A government proposes a question, EC review and respond, parliament then decides.

Here is the huge difference between the AV referendum and the independence referendum: nobody will be going in to the polling booth not understanding what they are being asked. Not a single person. There are still 2 years to the referendum. Even referendum and polling experts have said this week, it won't make any difference as everyone will know what the question means, quite different from a sudden AV campaign where people were affected by well funded and organised smear and scare stories with no time to get the real facts. (and I didnt support AV, incidentally)

[mistermack]

I hope the electoral commission will kick his ass, and tell him to come back with a neutral question.

As well as "agree" being deceptive, the word "independent" is also untrue.
No simple vote could make Scotland independent. It would need a lot more than separation from the UK.

I would say that an honest question would be,

" do you want Scotland to leave the UK and be a separate country? "
with yes and no boxes.

[ronmcd]

Westminister's preferred question:

Should Scotlandshire be ripped from all that is good and honourable, and cast adrift into the North Sea to wither and die in separation?

[ronmcd]

Hilarious intervention by Alistair Darling yesterday, suggesting if we vote for independence we will be "foreigners", and that (and I quote) “British music will no longer be our music”.

First, the Ireland Act of 1949 says this: "It is hereby declared that, notwithstanding that the Republic of Ireland is not part of His Majesty’s dominions, the Republic of Ireland is not a foreign country for the purposes of any law in force in any part of the United Kingdom or in any colony, protectorate or United Kingdom trust territory, whether by virtue of a rule of law or of an Act of Parliament or any other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, and references in any Act of Parliament, other enactment or instrument whatsoever, whether passed or made before or after the passing of this Act, to foreigners, aliens, foreign countries, and foreign or foreign-built ships or aircraft shall be construed accordingly."

Not sure why Scotland would be seen as suddenly "foreign" . Independent, yes, not "foreign".

As for British music not being our music ... Darling, you're an idiot.

[ronmcd]

I hope the electoral commission will kick his ass, and tell him to come back with a neutral question.

As well as "agree" being deceptive, the word "independent" is also untrue.

Bullshit, but trolling and shitstirring of the highest quality. Good job.

From Dr Matt Qvortrup, psephologist at Cranfield University

All international evidence suggests that the wording of the question is of minor importance in referendums. Several referendums with the word “agree” have been lost, including the referendum in Quebec in 1995.

The proposed question is fair by international standards, but politically speaking, the SNP administration cannot ignore the likely recommendation of the Electoral Commission.

[PsychoSerenity]

To put it into perspective, the opposite question, worded the same, would be:

"Do you agree that Scotland should be part of the United Kingdom".

ronmcd, if you think the wording is fair and/or doesn't matter much, would you be happy with this question?

[klr]

I thought the choice of question was supposed to be the work of Cameron et al, in that they wanted to present the Scottish voters with a straight "yes" or "no", with no middle ground "devo-max" option.