Nationalism. Is there an up side?

[Red Celt]

Is that what the SCOTTISH SELF DETERMINATION PARTY is all about then?

Jesus on a bicycle...

Scottish independence is not about the SNP. They are only the party who pushed it to the forefront, but members of other parties (and none) are also interested in self determination. You've been told this. Ronmcd told you this. I told you this. Should we try large letters, again?

If Scotland goes independent, the party in charge might be the SNP. Or Labour. Or the Lib Dems. Not the Tories, though. On those grounds alone, the idea is appealing to everyone who is left of centre.

Understood, now?

Or will you just go back to attacking Alex Salmond as if that's everything that the independence debate is about.

[ronmcd]

Ronmcd, do you ever get the feeling that no matter how many times you say something, some brains just aren't capable of absorbing your words?

I suspect I was seen to sigh and slump ever so slightly at my desk as I read this thread today ...

Perhaps it will work better in bigger print? A bit like a children's book... let's try.

It isn't about nationalism. It is about self-determination.

I'm not too optimistic.

Is that what the SCOTTISH SELF DETERMINATION PARTY is all about then?
I was nicknamed paddy for years by the way, not because I'm Irish, or even have an Irish accent, but just because I can DO an Irish accent, and my parents were Irish.
I don't give a fuck. I've never met anyone who objected to the term Jock or Paddy.
Maybe Ian Paisley might not like being called Paddy I suppose. All the more reason to use it though.

Paddy Paisley. I like it. It does have a sort of ring to it.

I think I should point out that "SNP" does not stand for Scottish Nationalist Party. And because you choose to interpret "nationalism" as xenophobia and hatred, does not mean that is what the word actually means. Didn't the Nazis call themselves "National Socialists"? Were they socialists?

I could call myself mistermack, it wouldn't suddenly make me ignorant of Scotland.

[mistermack]

I think I should point out that "SNP" does not stand for Scottish Nationalist Party.

That's so funny.
And what do you call MEMBERS of the SNP up your way?
I've never seen contortions like it !

[Jason]

As I said earlier, the want of self-determination in any group will lead to a us-vs-them attitude directed towards those who are denying or are perceived to be denying them. This is what some people call 'nationalism' and it is evinced in many of Red Celt's posts as he derides 'little Englanders' , etc., as simple opposing Scottish independence to deny Scotland self-determination (not in so many words). Meh.

[mistermack]

As I said earlier, the want of self-determination in any group will lead to a us-vs-them attitude directed towards those who are denying or are perceived to be denying them. This is what some people call 'nationalism' and it is evinced in many of Red Celt's posts as he derides 'little Englanders' , etc., as simple opposing Scottish independence to deny Scotland self-determination (not in so many words). Meh.

I don't even understand why they are posting on this thread. It's about nationalism. It's clearly got nothing to do with Scotland or the SNP.

[ronmcd]

As I said earlier, the want of self-determination in any group will lead to a us-vs-them attitude directed towards those who are denying or are perceived to be denying them. This is what some people call 'nationalism' and it is evinced in many of Red Celt's posts as he derides 'little Englanders' , etc., as simple opposing Scottish independence to deny Scotland self-determination (not in so many words). Meh.

I don't even understand why they are posting on this thread. It's about nationalism. It's clearly got nothing to do with Scotland or the SNP.

The thread is about "Nationalism. Is there an up side?". I have explained in some depth why the answer is YES.

What you are doing here trolling about Scotland ... *shrugs*

[ronmcd]

I think I should point out that "SNP" does not stand for Scottish Nationalist Party.

That's so funny.
And what do you call MEMBERS of the SNP up your way?
I've never seen contortions like it !

The SNP are nationalists, no doubt. I was simply pointing out your abject ignorance of Scotland and it's political landscape, with your trolling comment:

Is that what the SCOTTISH SELF DETERMINATION PARTY is all about then?

You clearly and ignorantly assumed the SNP were the Scottish Nationalist Party. You were wrong. It's okay, don't worry about it, I'll keep you right about this country you know absolutely fuck all about

[Rum]

The party is called the Scottish National Party, but of course it has nothing to do with nationalism.

[mistermack]

You clearly and ignorantly assumed the SNP were the Scottish Nationalist Party. You were wrong. It's okay, don't worry about it, I'll keep you right about this country you know absolutely fuck all about

Jings, you dare say that, to a direct descendant of Kenneth McAlpine?
I've had ma tea, and I'm right the noo sitting doon to a haggis and deep fried Mars Bars supper, then I'm doon the pub for a swally, if I can find my sporran. I'm mair scawttish than yous'll ever be.

[Red Celt]

You clearly and ignorantly assumed the SNP were the Scottish Nationalist Party. You were wrong. It's okay, don't worry about it, I'll keep you right about this country you know absolutely fuck all about

Jings, you dare say that, to a direct descendant of Kenneth McAlpine?

You think that you're a direct descendant because of your surname?

Yeah. So long as the last 1200 years have involved generation upon generation of devoutly faithful (un-raped) wives.

The Chinese system is much more reliable - with the name passed down the mother's line.

I've had ma tea, and I'm right the noo sitting doon to a haggis and deep fried Mars Bars supper, then I'm doon the pub for a swally, if I can find my sporran. I'm mair scawttish than yous'll ever be.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the Little Englander mentality that has Scots wiping the soles of their shoes on the nearest grass verge. Such a disgrace to the name of their countrymen who aren't anti-Scots/Welsh/N.Irish.

[ronmcd]

The party is called the Scottish National Party, but of course it has nothing to do with nationalism.

Wait, wait, I'm sure I remember someone addressing this very point recently .... ah, here it is!! Don't thank me, education is a public service:

I think I should point out that "SNP" does not stand for Scottish Nationalist Party.

That's so funny.
And what do you call MEMBERS of the SNP up your way?
I've never seen contortions like it !

The SNP are nationalists, no doubt. I was simply pointing out your abject ignorance of Scotland and it's political landscape, with your trolling comment:

Is that what the SCOTTISH SELF DETERMINATION PARTY is all about then?

You clearly and ignorantly assumed the SNP were the Scottish Nationalist Party. You were wrong. It's okay, don't worry about it, I'll keep you right about this country you know absolutely fuck all about

[mistermack]

I've had ma tea, and I'm right the noo sitting doon to a haggis and deep fried Mars Bars supper, then I'm doon the pub for a swally, if I can find my sporran. I'm mair scawttish than yous'll ever be.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the Little Englander mentality that has Scots wiping the soles of their shoes on the nearest grass verge. Such a disgrace to the name of their countrymen who aren't anti-Scots/Welsh/N.Irish.

You need to lighten up. Or migrate to A+

Humour is allowed here. And last time I was in Scotland, I don't recall everone being a misery there either.

And red hair don't make YOU a celt, either, after 100 generations.

[Robert_S]

I've had ma tea, and I'm right the noo sitting doon to a haggis and deep fried Mars Bars supper, then I'm doon the pub for a swally, if I can find my sporran. I'm mair scawttish than yous'll ever be.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the Little Englander mentality that has Scots wiping the soles of their shoes on the nearest grass verge. Such a disgrace to the name of their countrymen who aren't anti-Scots/Welsh/N.Irish.

You need to lighten up. Or migrate to A+

Humour is allowed here. And last time I was in Scotland, I don't recall everone being a misery there either.

And red hair don't make YOU a celt, either, after 100 generations.

I thought the "Red" was a Marxist reference. Or is it both? Is it the same thing maybe?

[Rum]

Ginger Jock?

Has a certain ring to it.

[mistermack]

I thought the "Red" was a Marxist reference. Or is it both? Is it the same thing maybe?

Celts were supposedly dark and swarthy of complexion, according to history lessons of fifty years ago.
Probably all change now.

But red is generally a clue to a viking influence at some point. Probably a few neanderthal genes floating around the northern populations.