Nationalism. Is there an up side?

[Rum]

When I was a kid I read loads of science fiction. I was an idealist too and I figured that one day we would have some kind of world government that was wise, beneficent and liberal.

All silly of course given the state of things these days.

Is nationalism defensible these days when all it appears to offer is difference rather than commonality, splitting rather than uniting, excluding rather than including?

Should we not be breaking down barriers rather than creating them?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Define nationalism, please.

[SteveB]

Solidarity for one. But there's negatives and positives for that one.

[MrJonno]

Makes football games (soccer) and other lesser sports more interesting.

Apart from that I save love for what can reciprocate ie people not countries

[Tero]

Well, sure, we are all the same. As long as we can build fences to keep "them" out.

[PsychoSerenity]

I think there certainly was an upside along time ago - or is an upside, in a different situation - but I think it's gradually breaking down as we all grow a little closer, and in the long run, yes, I'd hope to see it gone completely. I'd hope to see a world where the upsides of being separated from others are overshadowed by the upsides of being together.

[Red Celt]

When I was a kid I read loads of science fiction. I was an idealist too and I figured that one day we would have some kind of world government that was wise, beneficent and liberal.

All silly of course given the state of things these days.

Is nationalism defensible these days when all it appears to offer is difference rather than commonality, splitting rather than uniting, excluding rather than including?

Should we not be breaking down barriers rather than creating them?

You're a Little Englander. You are a part of what you hate. Stir your mug of Horlicks with that idea as you go to bed, tonight.

As an example, Scottish independence is being sought after because Westminster has been doing a shit job of it for too many years. If it had been doing a great job, independence would be a non-starter from the outset. This isn't about nationalism (and you've been told that more than once, you fuckwit) but self-determination... because distant-determination doesn't work.

One world government? Great. So long as it has subdivisions that do their best for their own people. Hell, let's go all out and call them... oh, I dunno... "countries".

Alles klar?

With you? Probably not.

[Jason]

One world government? Great. So long as it has subdivisions that do their best for their own people. Hell, let's go all out and call them... oh, I dunno... "countries".

I agree with this, though not your personal attacks and inciting tone. I just don't see a global government working without something similar to *gasp* communism in place where natural resources and wealth are redistributed equally throughout the world.

[laklak]

I think an absolute world dictatorship would work, particularly if I were Dictator.

I need minions and henchmen. Forward your resumes to me via PM.

[Audley Strange]

When I was a kid I read loads of science fiction. I was an idealist too and I figured that one day we would have some kind of world government that was wise, beneficent and liberal.

All silly of course given the state of things these days.

Is nationalism defensible these days when all it appears to offer is difference rather than commonality, splitting rather than uniting, excluding rather than including?

Should we not be breaking down barriers rather than creating them?

No Rum we should not. We as a species are not all on the same page. There are factions who kill girls for going to school and rape them first because adulteresses go to hell and truly believe they are good. I don't want them anywhere near my culture.

Nationalism is only defensible in so far as we do not have a mono-culture yet and until such time that humanity reaches a consensus towards that, nationalism is sadly, our main defence against it. I don't like the whole right wing "erosion of culture" thing, because it is exaggerated to a hysterical degree. However when there are factions of cunts who would happily replace modernity with archaic theocracy or post-modern corporate states, sometimes the status quo needs to be preserved and fought for because the alternatives are dangerous in the extreme.

Perhaps in a few hundred years when this net thing makes those boundaries utterly irrelevant finally.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Still waiting for that definition.

[Rum]

When I was a kid I read loads of science fiction. I was an idealist too and I figured that one day we would have some kind of world government that was wise, beneficent and liberal.

All silly of course given the state of things these days.

Is nationalism defensible these days when all it appears to offer is difference rather than commonality, splitting rather than uniting, excluding rather than including?

Should we not be breaking down barriers rather than creating them?

No Rum we should not. We as a species are not all on the same page. There are factions who kill girls for going to school and rape them first because adulteresses go to hell and truly believe they are good. I don't want them anywhere near my culture.

Nationalism is only defensible in so far as we do not have a mono-culture yet and until such time that humanity reaches a consensus towards that, nationalism is sadly, our main defence against it. I don't like the whole right wing "erosion of culture" thing, because it is exaggerated to a hysterical degree. However when there are factions of cunts who would happily replace modernity with archaic theocracy or post-modern corporate states, sometimes the status quo needs to be preserved and fought for because the alternatives are dangerous in the extreme.

Perhaps in a few hundred years when this net thing makes those boundaries utterly irrelevant finally.

Well I know it isn't remotely realistic of course. My 'world government' would be based on a sort of liberal democracy with a strong socialist element to support the most vulnerable. It would be open minded, fair, inclusive, non-judgemental and it would also assume happy cooperation from the rest of the world! Never going to happen.

In the mean time little small minded people has scrape around in the mud, putting up new barriers and frontiers and grabbing little bits of land so that can say 'thins is mine and you can't have it'.

We will never learn I suspect and that will ultimately be our downfall.

[redunderthebed]

Makes football games (soccer) and other lesser sports more interesting.

Apart from that I save love for what can reciprocate ie people not countries

+1

If love of country drives people to a better society then i'm all for it a deep sense of nationalism alongside ideas of socialism etc lead vietnam and cuba and china to its true independence and in vietnam and china's case unity.

I don't reject nationalism as an idea so long as its broad and inclusive and it can be.

[Cormac]

Makes football games (soccer) and other lesser sports more interesting.

Apart from that I save love for what can reciprocate ie people not countries

+1

If love of country drives people to a better society then i'm all for it a deep sense of nationalism alongside ideas of socialism etc lead vietnam and cuba and china to its true independence and in vietnam and china's case unity.

I don't reject nationalism as an idea so long as its broad and inclusive and it can be.

You have an interesting definition of freedom.

[Audley Strange]

Well I know it isn't remotely realistic of course. My 'world government' would be based on a sort of liberal democracy with a strong socialist element to support the most vulnerable. It would be open minded, fair, inclusive, non-judgemental and it would also assume happy cooperation from the rest of the world! Never going to happen.

Yet we're much closer to that than we were even 30 years ago. Sure, as I keep saying there is some fine tuning needed towards centrism (not that I'm advocating that as a political agenda, but as a position of compromise which can be worked from) but have we not had that more or less since the post war era anyway? Granted its not perfect, but at the moment it is a fuckload better than the options trying to replace it.

In the mean time little small minded people has scrape around in the mud, putting up new barriers and frontiers and grabbing little bits of land so that can say 'thins is mine and you can't have it'.

We will never learn I suspect and that will ultimately be our downfall.

Man, the internet is on a downer this last week...