Having a form of identification to vote.

[Seth]

Just curious - whats's the object to voting early / an extended voting period?

It facilitates voter fraud and when combined with exit polling it can skew an election.

On the other hand, it does offer convenience.

I think the better idea is to make Election Day a national holiday and require people to go to the polls to vote. If your vote doesn't mean enough for you to get off your fat ass and go to the polling place to vote, then I don't care what your preference is.

[JimC]

Just curious - whats's the object to voting early / an extended voting period?

It facilitates voter fraud and when combined with exit polling it can skew an election.

On the other hand, it does offer convenience.

I think the better idea is to make Election Day a national holiday and require people to go to the polls to vote. If your vote doesn't mean enough for you to get off your fat ass and go to the polling place to vote, then I don't care what your preference is.

Wow, this really surprises me...

Seth suggesting compulsory voting!

(we have it in Oz, and the sky hasn't fallen in, but our politicians are still mostly arseholes...)

[Santa_Claus]

Just curious - whats's the object to voting early / an extended voting period?

It facilitates voter fraud and when combined with exit polling it can skew an election.

On the other hand, it does offer convenience.

I think the better idea is to make Election Day a national holiday and require people to go to the polls to vote. If your vote doesn't mean enough for you to get off your fat ass and go to the polling place to vote, then I don't care what your preference is.

I agree that polling can skew an election - some countries impose a ban on all polls (for 1 week?) before polling day, until they close. .......I like that approach, with an extended voting period could even be a 2 week embargo!

But I am still not exactly sure how an extended voting period facilitates voter fraud (as long as the system to record who has voted already is robust! - and in the 21st Century no reason why it cannot be).

For me postal voting is the far bigger risk - in the UK it has grown massively over recent elections. Used to be mainly for those who were not mobile, nowadays it seems to work well for those "communities" who parcel up (and sell?) votes from family members towards a specific candidate (if you are in a family that requires you to wear a bin bag in public can imagine how free yer vote actually is ).

Although not a fan of anything compulsory - I make an exception for voting. and whilst the Australian experiance does not seem to have generated any radical change nonetheless I would support the idea. Could even give voters a free lottery ticket .

[amused]

Not only should there be an identification requirement, I think there should also be a minimum intelligence requirement to vote. Along with an even higher intelligence requirement to run for office. Yes, I'm a brainist. Privilege!

[Coito ergo sum]

Not only should there be an identification requirement, I think there should also be a minimum intelligence requirement to vote. Along with an even higher intelligence requirement to run for office. Yes, I'm a brainist. Privilege!

The problem with minimum intelligence requirements is that they are inherently political. There is no way to reliably create a test that would not be in some way manipulated by the major parties.

Any intelligence test would have to be commissioned by the government, and reviewed by bureaucrats.

The government is run by the people who run for office.

So, there would be an inherent desire to make the intelligence test structured in such a way as to exclude more of the other side's voters.

In the past, some US states were requiring literacy tests. They were found to be unconstitutional under the "equal protection" clause. The same principle would apply to intelligence tests.

[amused]

Not only should there be an identification requirement, I think there should also be a minimum intelligence requirement to vote. Along with an even higher intelligence requirement to run for office. Yes, I'm a brainist. Privilege!

The problem with minimum intelligence requirements is that they are inherently political. There is no way to reliably create a test that would not be in some way manipulated by the major parties.

Any intelligence test would have to be commissioned by the government, and reviewed by bureaucrats.

The government is run by the people who run for office.

So, there would be an inherent desire to make the intelligence test structured in such a way as to exclude more of the other side's voters.

In the past, some US states were requiring literacy tests. They were found to be unconstitutional under the "equal protection" clause. The same principle would apply to intelligence tests.

Yeah, I know, I was mostly pining for an informed electorate. Fantasy stuff!

[Coito ergo sum]

Seth suggesting compulsory voting!

(we have it in Oz, and the sky hasn't fallen in, but our politicians are still mostly arseholes...)

I oppose compulsory voting on principle.

1. Nonvoting can be a form of voting.

2. If an individual wishes to be apathetic, then it is no business of his or her neighbors or the State.

3. If a person is not voting because they don't feel they know enough, or they don't care, then it is not a benefit to the citizenry that they cast random votes. It adds an element of randomness to an election, and an election is not supposed to be a lottery. And, people who don't know and/or don't care are more apt to be swayed by appeals to ignorance, fear, emotion and caprice, which is also not of any benefit to anyone.

[Coito ergo sum]

Yeah, I know, I was mostly pining for an informed electorate. Fantasy stuff!

The problem with wishing for an informed electorate is that most of the electorate just isn't very bright. Seriously, the average IQ is about 100.

In the US, we have the Scholastic Aptitude Test, which students take a year before graduating high school, and the average student answers 50-60% of those questions correctly. I mean, damn. When you look at the questions asked, you have to wonder....

"Don't you love it when people in school are like, "I'm a bad test taker"? You mean, you're stupid. Oh, you struggle with that part where we find out what you know? Oh. No, no, I can totally relate. See, because I'm a brilliant painter, minus my God-awful brushstrokes. Oh, how the masterpiece is crystal up here[points to head], but once paint hits canvas, I develop Parkinson's." Daniel Tosh.

[amused]

...

The problem with wishing for an informed electorate is that most of the electorate just isn't very bright. Seriously, the average IQ is about 100.

...

Time for that George Carlin quote again:

Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.

[Santa_Claus]

Time for that George Carlin quote again:

Think of how stupid the average person is and then realize that half of them are stupider than that.

It could be that 25% are really really stupid.

or that someone has an IQ of 12 squillion .

[JimC]

Seth suggesting compulsory voting!

(we have it in Oz, and the sky hasn't fallen in, but our politicians are still mostly arseholes...)

I oppose compulsory voting on principle.

1. Nonvoting can be a form of voting.

2. If an individual wishes to be apathetic, then it is no business of his or her neighbors or the State.

3. If a person is not voting because they don't feel they know enough, or they don't care, then it is not a benefit to the citizenry that they cast random votes. It adds an element of randomness to an election, and an election is not supposed to be a lottery. And, people who don't know and/or don't care are more apt to be swayed by appeals to ignorance, fear, emotion and caprice, which is also not of any benefit to anyone.

1. This is allowed. You can turn up, get yourself ticked off, write "Fuck you, politician scum" on your ballot paper, and your job is done...

2. I think that apathetic voters are a real concern to a community. At least, with my first example, such a vote counts as "informal voting", and the % is recorded; if it is rising, this is a useful message to politicians...

3. I'm simply unsure of the number of random votes that accrue because of compulsory voting. If it were a high %, I would agree it would be a worry...

[Coito ergo sum]

Seth suggesting compulsory voting!

(we have it in Oz, and the sky hasn't fallen in, but our politicians are still mostly arseholes...)

I oppose compulsory voting on principle.

1. Nonvoting can be a form of voting.

2. If an individual wishes to be apathetic, then it is no business of his or her neighbors or the State.

3. If a person is not voting because they don't feel they know enough, or they don't care, then it is not a benefit to the citizenry that they cast random votes. It adds an element of randomness to an election, and an election is not supposed to be a lottery. And, people who don't know and/or don't care are more apt to be swayed by appeals to ignorance, fear, emotion and caprice, which is also not of any benefit to anyone.

1. This is allowed. You can turn up, get yourself ticked off, write "Fuck you, politician scum" on your ballot paper, and your job is done...

That may as may be, but then it is not accomplishing anything by compelling people to vote.

2. I think that apathetic voters are a real concern to a community. At least, with my first example, such a vote counts as "informal voting", and the % is recorded; if it is rising, this is a useful message to politicians...

No moreso than registered voters who don't vote.

3. I'm simply unsure of the number of random votes that accrue because of compulsory voting. If it were a high %, I would agree it would be a worry...

Of course it's high. Most people don't know much about the candidates they vote for. We vote for some judges and other officials here. Even most of the above-average politicos don't know who the judges are.

[Coito ergo sum]

Seth suggesting compulsory voting!

(we have it in Oz, and the sky hasn't fallen in, but our politicians are still mostly arseholes...)

I oppose compulsory voting on principle.

1. Nonvoting can be a form of voting.

2. If an individual wishes to be apathetic, then it is no business of his or her neighbors or the State.

3. If a person is not voting because they don't feel they know enough, or they don't care, then it is not a benefit to the citizenry that they cast random votes. It adds an element of randomness to an election, and an election is not supposed to be a lottery. And, people who don't know and/or don't care are more apt to be swayed by appeals to ignorance, fear, emotion and caprice, which is also not of any benefit to anyone.

1. This is allowed. You can turn up, get yourself ticked off, write "Fuck you, politician scum" on your ballot paper, and your job is done...

That may as may be, but then it is not accomplishing anything by compelling people to vote.

2. I think that apathetic voters are a real concern to a community. At least, with my first example, such a vote counts as "informal voting", and the % is recorded; if it is rising, this is a useful message to politicians...

No moreso than registered voters who don't vote.

3. I'm simply unsure of the number of random votes that accrue because of compulsory voting. If it were a high %, I would agree it would be a worry...

Of course it's high. Most people don't know much about the candidates they vote for. We vote for some judges and other officials here. Even most of the above-average politicos don't know who the judges are.

[Seth]

Just curious - whats's the object to voting early / an extended voting period?

It facilitates voter fraud and when combined with exit polling it can skew an election.

On the other hand, it does offer convenience.

I think the better idea is to make Election Day a national holiday and require people to go to the polls to vote. If your vote doesn't mean enough for you to get off your fat ass and go to the polling place to vote, then I don't care what your preference is.

Wow, this really surprises me...

Seth suggesting compulsory voting!

(we have it in Oz, and the sky hasn't fallen in, but our politicians are still mostly arseholes...)

Nononononono! Not compulsory voting, I said we should require people to actually go to a polling place to vote, as opposed to mail ballots, which are prone to coercion, intimidation and fraud (also, no electronic voting, paper ballots only, and if you're too stupid to punch a chad out completely, your vote should be ignored). I'm fine with the seething proletarian masses not voting. In fact, I think you should have to be a property owner (ie: directly pay property taxes) to be allowed to vote, and, in a Heinleinesque twist, some form of national service should be required to be a "citizen" who is allowed to vote to begin with. Also, you should not be allowed to vote if you take any form of government financial assistance other than student loans or Social Security that YOU have paid in to the system. Welfare leeches should not be allowed to vote to continue to take money from other people to fund their lifestyles.

[amused]

... We vote for some judges and other officials here. Even most of the above-average politicos don't know who the judges are.

Donald Burt Yarbrough (born August 5, 1941 in Dallas, Texas) served as a justice on the Texas Supreme Court.

Yarbrough ran for the Texas Supreme Court in 1976 claiming that God wanted him to run for that office. Yarbrough defeated a well-respected judge, Charles Barrow, in the Democratic Party primary, mainly because most voters confused him with either Don Yarborough (who had run for Governor before) or Senator Ralph Yarborough.

Yarbrough's election to the Supreme Court was in spite of various scandals, such as being indicted for forging an auto registration and lying to a grand jury. Yarbrough resigned from the Texas Supreme Court in July 1977. He was convicted of lying to the grand jury in January 1978 and he fled with his family to Grenada in 1981. Grenada refused to extradite Yarbrough and Yarbrough attended St. George's University School of Medicine (SGUSOM). However, while attending classes at SGUSOM's campus in St. Vincent and the Grenadines in 1983, he was arrested by U.S. consular officials. Yarbrough was sentenced to six years in federal prison in 1986 for bribery.[citation needed] Yarbrough, Federal Bureau of Prisons #36007-079, was released on March 8, 1990.[1] He currently resides in Orlando, Florida.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Yarbrough

Voting for judges is ridiculous.