Politicians' salaries

[Tero]

Should we pay them anuthing at all? They haven't done anything for 2 years. We even pay their lunch and limos.

Senators make almost as much as cabinet members.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28179393/ns ... t-clinton/

[klr]

Pay 'em too little, and you get the dregs. Pay 'em too much, and everyone complains that they're too well paid. Sometimes you just can't win/

[Tero]

Maybe we should just get "sponsors" to pay them. After all, they bribe them anyway.

[John_fi_Skye]

Imagine there were no politicians. The concept hadn't been thought of. You'd want certain things done - bins collected, roads maintained, illnesses cured, children educated, law and order maintained, economy stimulated, etc. So, you'd agree that in a civilised society we can elect people to see to these things for us. And to discharge such responsibilities we'd need a pretty small number of committed individuals. And then, along came party politics. And the end result is that we now have an enormous - a ridiculous - number of people whom we have to elect to discharge these functions for us, and because democracy is self-evidently a Good Thing we have to have more and more and more of it: more layers of government, all pointing the finger at each other for wasting resources, more undersecretaries and infrastructure, more media people, more TV time.

It would be wonderful if we could stop; take stock; decide what we need, and consign the rest to the bin. But ah'm no haudin ma braith.

[Audley Strange]

Right on John, party politics kills democracy.

[Ian]

I'm looking forward to seeing a true independent run for President here. Somebody worth my vote. The last independent to make a serious run in the US was Ross Effing Perot twenty years ago.

[Tero]

Ross: Are you with me or against me? No fucking 47%ers for Ross!

[Jason]

Pay them nothing and they represent anyone who'll line their pockets. What I'm wondering is if it's possible to pay them enough to make them immune to bribery. I'm guessing no. I'd be happy paying them whatever the median is of the middle income class. That includes Presidents, Presidentes, Prime Ministers, Premiers etc.

[Cormac]

Right on John,two party politics kills democracy.

[Cormac]

The other problem is that it is a shit job.

Even if we were to succeed in removing bribery and clientelism from politics, it is a shit and thankless job, requiring extremely long hours, constituents phoning you at all hours of the day, having to spin stories in order to limit the ability of the media to twist their own spin, the stupidity and fickleness of the mob on whose support you rely in order to get re-elected.

Then there is the issue of opportunity cost. To run for initial election takes an enormous financial gamble, with real risk of substantial financial loss. Taking 3-5 years our of any career is very risky and who wants to expose their family to that?

There is another side to the story. People don't necessarily get involved in politics to feather their own nests.

[Audley Strange]

Right on John,two party politics kills democracy.

I disagree. The problem with party politics is that everyone in such a party has to toe the line with the fundamental ideology of it. This is a problem because what's good for Moss side is not good for Kensington and Chelsea. Areas have unique and differing subcultures which would be better served if there was not a centralised doctrine.

I'd suggest that we should be voting for our MP's they should all be independent and when they get into Parliament, they should be voting as to who is the Prime Minister and the cabinet. No parties to officially oppose. Let opposition come from indivudual members joining together to oppose things, not because some whip says so. Also I think the press are like jackals because of this. When you have a central ideology they will hunt down and devour any divergence from this.

[Cormac]

Right on John,two party politics kills democracy.

I disagree. The problem with party politics is that everyone in such a party has to toe the line with the fundamental ideology of it. This is a problem because what's good for Moss side is not good for Kensington and Chelsea. Areas have unique and differing subcultures which would be better served if there was not a centralised doctrine.

I'd suggest that we should be voting for our MP's they should all be independent and when they get into Parliament, they should be voting as to who is the Prime Minister and the cabinet. No parties to officially oppose. Let opposition come from indivudual members joining together to oppose things, not because some whip says so. Also I think the press are like jackals because of this. When you have a central ideology they will hunt down and devour any divergence from this.

Ok. Imagine that structure.

I think that what you would have is a rapid polarisation into groups within parliament. The stability of government necessary to implement policy to any practical level would become impossible, as there would be putsch after putsch to remove rivals from their cabinet positions. Eventually, distinct groupings would emerge in parliament, as people try to establish some order in order to get work done.

I don't like party politics either. For me, they are too prone to ideological shackles, and they don't enable pragmatic planning and execution very well. But, paraphrasing Churchill - it is a dreadful form of government, but when compared to all the others...

[Audley Strange]

But it would still be a democracy and yes there may well be rapid polarisation over various issues, but without a party ideology to pressure them M.P.s could vote against things that harm their personal constituency rather than be forced to abstain or lose influence. Also I think party politics makes it too easy for people to vote for their favourite colour or faith rather than who will be best for them. It's a hangover from the Dialectic and like the rest of our parliamentary showbiz entirely too archaic for the current society we live in.

The system we have does not need huge ideologically based changes, it needs fine tuning. Are there problems with what I posted? Sure, I'm just pulling it out my arse as a half-thought, but given some time and energy, I think it could work.

[Cormac]

But it would still be a democracy and yes there may well be rapid polarisation over various issues, but without a party ideology to pressure them M.P.s could vote against things that harm their personal constituency rather than be forced to abstain or lose influence. Also I think party politics makes it too easy for people to vote for their favourite colour or faith rather than who will be best for them. It's a hangover from the Dialectic and like the rest of our parliamentary showbiz entirely too archaic for the current society we live in.

The system we have does not need huge ideologically based changes, it needs fine tuning. Are there problems with what I posted? Sure, I'm just pulling it out my arse as a half-thought, but given some time and energy, I think it could work.

A simpler solution might be to require that all votes in parliament are taken as free votes, and thereby ban the party whip system.

There are problems with this too, of course.

[JimC]

But it would still be a democracy and yes there may well be rapid polarisation over various issues, but without a party ideology to pressure them M.P.s could vote against things that harm their personal constituency rather than be forced to abstain or lose influence. Also I think party politics makes it too easy for people to vote for their favourite colour or faith rather than who will be best for them. It's a hangover from the Dialectic and like the rest of our parliamentary showbiz entirely too archaic for the current society we live in.

The system we have does not need huge ideologically based changes, it needs fine tuning. Are there problems with what I posted? Sure, I'm just pulling it out my arse as a half-thought, but given some time and energy, I think it could work.

A simpler solution might be to require that all votes in parliament are taken as free votes, and thereby ban the party whip system.

There are problems with this too, of course.

A secret ballot would help...