An independent Scotland?

[ronmcd]

...

Scotland has natural resources NZ can only dream of (even if it only got a pro rata 9% of North Sea resources after independence). It is incredibly well placed geographically. It can learn the lessons of Ireland's demise, and the reasons for its initial success. It can create its own dynamic economy by opening its English speaking shop right next door to England - why shouldn't Glasgow become a London of the north?

What a fantastic opportunity - I think the Scots would be scared fucking pussies if they turned down this once in ten lifetimes chance.

Face the wind!

Oi! We're not finished yet. Stop writing our epitaph.

Good point, and to be even more pedantic, Edinburgh already IS the "london of the north", at least in terms of financial services. Scotland is the most attractive place in UK for investment outside London, I beleive

But ... if an independent Scotland implements more stringent regulation of the banking sector (as per the quote in your last post), would that remain the case?

Make no mistake: I would heartily endorse much tougher regulation of the banking and investment sector. But the current UK government - prompted by the "City" - doesn't want that at all, purely out of self-interest.

Did I quote someone endorsing tougher regulation? If so, I wasn't endorsing tougher - or less tough - banking regulation, it's not something I really know enough about to be able to comment. My position would just be that Scotland could implement whatever standards of regulation it wanted, political parties here would choose their positions and be elected on their manifestos. I agree the regulation for UK has resulted in massive problems btw, so I'm not averse to better regulation at all.

edit- Yup, you're right, the Blair Jenkins quote talked of lax regulation.

[Audley Strange]

No, I accept completely what you are saying, I didn't take it as criticism. I just understand where RC is coming from. There isn't a huge pool of potential undecided Scottish referendum voters here on rationalia anyway, so I'm arguing here for the lols and don't take it very seriously myself.

Nor should you, this is a light hearted board with a love of goring people's sacred cows.

Anyway, I'm undecided. Not about the referendum, the country voted for the SNP therefore the people have make the decision that they would, at least, like the opportunity to have a vote. I'm undecided because I have a great love of our union, but at the same time I would like to see if Scotland could stand or fail on its own.

However since many of our English friends have an issue with it. How about dissolving Westminster and running the U.K from Edinburgh would they be happy with that as a solution?

[ronmcd]

'"Your main parliament will move hundreds of miles away, and your MPs will be in a tiny minority; you will get a government you didn’t vote for; all of your oil and gas revenues will be handed over to the London Treasury; the biggest nuclear weapons arsenal in Western Europe will be built on the River Clyde, 30 miles from your largest city.

'"You will be joining a country where the health and education services are rapidly being privatised; now and then you will get dragged into an illegal foreign war; an austerity budget will be imposed from London, cutting jobs and threatening the provision of vital public services; weak regulation of the banking sector will bring your economy to the brink of disaster.

'"And, on top of all that, the most vulnerable people in society, instead of getting protection and support, will be interrogated and humiliated in order to deprive them of the very meagre level of provision to which they are entitled."

'I ask this conference – who in Scotland would vote for that package? Who in Scotland would vote for that union?'

Pretty damn keen to joint another Union though. Obviously, it's not the PRINCIPLE of being in a union.
Even though that parliament is farther away than London.

Actually, I would say that the YES campaign are keen to remain in EU, NATO, and other international organisations in the immediate aftermath of an independence vote. As opposed to join. Continuity is the key, I think. If an independent Scotland then wanted to leave EU, NATO, become a republic, make haggis a protected species, ban X-Factor from ever being shown on tv ... those are decisions people would make in the future.

[ronmcd]

... and the lords could go fuck themselves.

Well, absolutely. What was it one of our lordships said this week, older people must stop being a 'negative burden' on the state, and pensions 'should be linked to contributions to the community'? So says "lord Bichard", former permanent secretary at the Department for Education, retired from the civil service at just 53. His taxpayer-funded pension is estimated to be £120,000 a year.

Tosser.

[klr]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

[John_fi_Skye]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

Cull the bastards anyway.

[ronmcd]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

Oooh, good question. No idea. I guess we will hear the SNP's ideas in their white paper. The Greens want a written consitution, a bill of rights, not sure about a second chamber.

An independent Scotland would allow a fresh start, wouldn't it?

[Audley Strange]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

I'd suggest a House of Commons and a House of skiving Wee Fannies.

[John_fi_Skye]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

I'd suggest a House of Commons and a House of skiving Wee Fannies.

Just the status quo, then.

[klr]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

Oooh, good question. No idea. I guess we will hear the SNP's ideas in their white paper. The Greens want a written consitution, a bill of rights, not sure about a second chamber.

An independent Scotland would allow a fresh start, wouldn't it?

It certainly would. Ireland has an upper house - the Seanad (senate), but a lot of people would like to get rid of it to save money and streamline the business of government. It's been argued that you can use committee systems and similar to provide the same checks and balances that an an upper house normally would. Frankly I think it's an outdated system.

Of course, if an independent Scotland proves that it get get by quite well without an upper house, then the House of Lords is going to look even more anachronistic to those left in the UK. Maybe you could end up doing everyone a favour.

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

I'd suggest a House of Commons and a House of skiving Wee Fannies.

You could sell naming rights for the Scottish parliament complex as well while you're at it.

[Audley Strange]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

I'd suggest a House of Commons and a House of skiving Wee Fannies.

Just the status quo, then.

Would be ace on BBC parliament.

"Aye the right honourable bawbag fur Dunfermline east might think he's a wideo, but ah fucked yer maw ya dobber!!!"

[ronmcd]

At the moment, the Scottish parliament has only one house. If Scotland says yes, then it gets rid of both the UK MPs and the House of Lords at a stroke. What plans (if any) are there for an upper house in Scotland, or will it stick with the current setup?

I'd suggest a House of Commons and a House of skiving Wee Fannies.

Just the status quo, then.

Would be ace on BBC parliament.

"Aye the right honourable bawbag fur Dunfermline east might think he's a wideo, but ah fucked yer maw ya dobber!!!"

Someone's been watching Ian Davidson's Committee on Ripping Scotland Apart From The UK on BBC Parliament!

[Audley Strange]

Still wouldn't you prefer that kind of hostile invective in our parliament rather than the anodyne 3rd rate university debating society pantomime that is our current parliament. Would it not be wonderful to hear someone say "Cameron, you don't half talk some fucking shite ya chinless prick, any mer a' it an am gonny reach oor this table an' rip yer jaw fur ye ya bam!" or "Shut the fuck up Milliband or I'll toe yer baws."

Even just once. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

[John_fi_Skye]

Still wouldn't you prefer that kind of hostile invective in our parliament rather than the anodyne 3rd rate university debating society pantomime that is our current parliament. Would it not be wonderful to hear someone say "Cameron, you don't half talk some fucking shite ya chinless prick, any mer a' it an am gonny reach oor this table an' rip yer jaw fur ye ya bam!" or "Shut the fuck up Milliband or I'll toe yer baws."

Even just once. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

It's what they're thinking, after all - though translated into Scots from their habitual Etonese.

[ronmcd]

Still wouldn't you prefer that kind of hostile invective in our parliament rather than the anodyne 3rd rate university debating society pantomime that is our current parliament. Would it not be wonderful to hear someone say "Cameron, you don't half talk some fucking shite ya chinless prick, any mer a' it an am gonny reach oor this table an' rip yer jaw fur ye ya bam!" or "Shut the fuck up Milliband or I'll toe yer baws."

Even just once. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

It would be funny for sure. But this week has been pretty close to that at First Minister's questions at Holyrood, and it's not a pleasant sight. The list of insults thrown at Salmond this week were just silly.

For all that I support more powers for Holyrood, and independence if that is the only way to get it, I'm quite depressed and worried by the name calling and really quite "unparliamentary" language that has been used this week in Holyrood, something that would not be allowed in Westminister. It's playschool insults, quite unpleasant. Does that sort of thing encourage people to pay attention to politics, and find out the truth of issues? Or does it just turn people off and make people think all politicians are fucking tossers. I almost think we just dont deserve to hold power in Scotland.

But then I look at Westminister, and Holyrood is still better. If not in adult behaviour, at least in terms of relevance.