An independent Scotland?

[Thinking Aloud]

The Parti Quebecois is in power in Quebec again. Soon the independence for Quebec rhetoric will start. We'll give England Quebec and Alberta for Scotland....

Is there a way we could do it so we keep Quebec and Alberta and trade the Quebecers and Albertans instead?

Couldn't we godless types just steal the whole of BC and be done with it?

[klr]

...

Scotland has natural resources NZ can only dream of (even if it only got a pro rata 9% of North Sea resources after independence). It is incredibly well placed geographically. It can learn the lessons of Ireland's demise, and the reasons for its initial success. It can create its own dynamic economy by opening its English speaking shop right next door to England - why shouldn't Glasgow become a London of the north?

What a fantastic opportunity - I think the Scots would be scared fucking pussies if they turned down this once in ten lifetimes chance.

Face the wind!

Oi! We're not finished yet. Stop writing our epitaph.

[SteveB]

It's already called British..

[Jason]

We do have the best bud in the world.

[ronmcd]

I think Scotland should go for it.

In 1973 New Zealand faced a major crisis when the UK joined the EEC - all of the bilateral trade agreements were scrapped and the resulting figures are staggering:

In 1973, 30% of NZ's exports were sent to the UK - within 20 years this fell to less than 10%. But it went both ways - in 1960 43% of NZ's total imports came from Britain. By 1980 this fell to 14.5% and by 2007 the figure was 3%.

So what you have is a complete readjustment of the direction of a national economy by necessity - and behind those figures lay stories of immense energy, entrepreneurship, opportunity, fighting for new markets, new ideas, new friends and partnerships. All this was done by a tiny country in the back arse of nowhere - forced to face a cold wind rather than having the choice to go it alone. The umbilical cord to empire was well and truly cut. By all accounts it was really scary, serious soul searching was done, but look what NZ has become in the past 40 years - it is consistently rated as one of the top five countries in the world to live, it has one of the top five education systems in the world and it has mastery of its own destiny with, for instance, trade agreements with countries like China which give it first dibs on investment and trade opportunities. There is much to be said for the strength of great economic bloc's like the USA and the EU, but there is also a place for the nippy little yachts like Australia and NZ and I quite like the sense of national confidence and optimism this freedom seems to bring.

Scotland has natural resources NZ can only dream of (even if it only got a pro rata 9% of North Sea resources after independence). It is incredibly well placed geographically. It can learn the lessons of Ireland's demise, and the reasons for its initial success. It can create its own dynamic economy by opening its English speaking shop right next door to England - why shouldn't Glasgow become a London of the north?

What a fantastic opportunity - I think the Scots would be scared fucking pussies if they turned down this once in ten lifetimes chance.

Face the wind!

Thanks, great post.

Blair Jenkins, the ex BBC journalist who fronts the "YES" campaign made a similar point. He asked a simple question: 'Would you vote for Scotland to join the Union?'

'"Your main parliament will move hundreds of miles away, and your MPs will be in a tiny minority; you will get a government you didn’t vote for; all of your oil and gas revenues will be handed over to the London Treasury; the biggest nuclear weapons arsenal in Western Europe will be built on the River Clyde, 30 miles from your largest city.

'"You will be joining a country where the health and education services are rapidly being privatised; now and then you will get dragged into an illegal foreign war; an austerity budget will be imposed from London, cutting jobs and threatening the provision of vital public services; weak regulation of the banking sector will bring your economy to the brink of disaster.

'"And, on top of all that, the most vulnerable people in society, instead of getting protection and support, will be interrogated and humiliated in order to deprive them of the very meagre level of provision to which they are entitled."

'I ask this conference – who in Scotland would vote for that package? Who in Scotland would vote for that union?'

[Woodbutcher]

The Parti Quebecois is in power in Quebec again. Soon the independence for Quebec rhetoric will start. We'll give England Quebec and Alberta for Scotland....

Is there a way we could do it so we keep Quebec and Alberta and trade the Quebecers and Albertans instead?

I think we already have a lot of Scots...we could use the rest of them too. Albertans are not Canadians.

[Bella Fortuna]

The Parti Quebecois is in power in Quebec again. Soon the independence for Quebec rhetoric will start. We'll give England Quebec and Alberta for Scotland....

Is there a way we could do it so we keep Quebec and Alberta and trade the Quebecers and Albertans instead?

Couldn't we godless types just steal the whole of BC and be done with it?

It'd have to be renamed BCE.

[Thinking Aloud]

We do have the best bud in the world.

I wouldn't know anything about that, but I may be passing through again next summer some time!

And BC ice wine is pretty much the only alcoholic drink I'll willingly down.

[SteveB]

Before the common era?

[Thinking Aloud]

Yeah - wine from Egyptian tombs or nothing.

[ronmcd]

...

Scotland has natural resources NZ can only dream of (even if it only got a pro rata 9% of North Sea resources after independence). It is incredibly well placed geographically. It can learn the lessons of Ireland's demise, and the reasons for its initial success. It can create its own dynamic economy by opening its English speaking shop right next door to England - why shouldn't Glasgow become a London of the north?

What a fantastic opportunity - I think the Scots would be scared fucking pussies if they turned down this once in ten lifetimes chance.

Face the wind!

Oi! We're not finished yet. Stop writing our epitaph.

Good point, and to be even more pedantic, Edinburgh already IS the "london of the north", at least in terms of financial services. Scotland is the most attractive place in UK for investment outside London, I believe

(edit - shocking spelling)

[klr]

...

Scotland has natural resources NZ can only dream of (even if it only got a pro rata 9% of North Sea resources after independence). It is incredibly well placed geographically. It can learn the lessons of Ireland's demise, and the reasons for its initial success. It can create its own dynamic economy by opening its English speaking shop right next door to England - why shouldn't Glasgow become a London of the north?

What a fantastic opportunity - I think the Scots would be scared fucking pussies if they turned down this once in ten lifetimes chance.

Face the wind!

Oi! We're not finished yet. Stop writing our epitaph.

Good point, and to be even more pedantic, Edinburgh already IS the "london of the north", at least in terms of financial services. Scotland is the most attractive place in UK for investment outside London, I beleive

But ... if an independent Scotland implements more stringent regulation of the banking sector (as per the quote in your last post), would that remain the case?

Make no mistake: I would heartily endorse much tougher regulation of the banking and investment sector. But the current UK government - prompted by the "City" - doesn't want that at all, purely out of self-interest.

[Svartalf]

The Parti Quebecois is in power in Quebec again. Soon the independence for Quebec rhetoric will start. We'll give England Quebec and Alberta for Scotland....

Is there a way we could do it so we keep Quebec and Alberta and trade the Quebecers and Albertans instead?

How about you give Québec to the US in trade for Maine?

[mistermack]

'"Your main parliament will move hundreds of miles away, and your MPs will be in a tiny minority; you will get a government you didn’t vote for; all of your oil and gas revenues will be handed over to the London Treasury; the biggest nuclear weapons arsenal in Western Europe will be built on the River Clyde, 30 miles from your largest city.

'"You will be joining a country where the health and education services are rapidly being privatised; now and then you will get dragged into an illegal foreign war; an austerity budget will be imposed from London, cutting jobs and threatening the provision of vital public services; weak regulation of the banking sector will bring your economy to the brink of disaster.

'"And, on top of all that, the most vulnerable people in society, instead of getting protection and support, will be interrogated and humiliated in order to deprive them of the very meagre level of provision to which they are entitled."

'I ask this conference – who in Scotland would vote for that package? Who in Scotland would vote for that union?'

Pretty damn keen to joint another Union though. Obviously, it's not the PRINCIPLE of being in a union.
Even though that parliament is farther away than London.

[Thinking Aloud]

The Courier has published a poll today that apparently shows a rather static situation with regard to current opinions on separation.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/News/Politi ... hopes.html

It'll be interesting to watch how this develops over time - and I wonder if the opposition to allowing 16/17 year olds to vote may prove to be significant or not.