An independent Scotland?

[klr]

...

So I think we all agree Scotland would be in EU, the question is immediately, or after a short negotiation, or after a long brutal series of arguments? I think sense will prevail and it will be pretty simple and seamless.

Aha! I think I see the problem. This is the EU you're dealing with. Common sense is not to be taken for granted. I'm Irish, and "negotiating" with the EU is only for those with inordinate patience, especially if you are from a small country with about 1% of the current EU population*. Salmond wants to get everything done and dusted with a year to spare. I think that's just a pipe-dream. Nothing ever goes smoothly with the EU, especially where there are power politics and money involved. I'd prefer if it were different, for the Scots as much as us Irish.

[Jason]

Alright. Who pissed in Red Celt's haggis? (or didn't piss.. I forget how to make haggis).

[Bella Fortuna]

Remind me to pitch a fit next time someone makes a crack about blondes being stupid

Now imagine someone who is vocally and actively anti-blonde. Now imagine that a friend of that anti-blonde (who hasn't criticised any of his friend's anti-blonde comments) resorts to anti-blonde stereotypes. Would you see the usage of that stereotype as harmless as other stereotypes? Or might you think it reasonable to assume that there is deeper substance to that particular person resorting to stereotypes?

Read the whole thread, Bella. Then tell me your thoughts on some of the people who have been "contributing" here, and why their "contributions" have resulted in "snark".

I will do so, in fairness.

[Audley Strange]

Schneibster?

First LIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Red Celt]

Alright. Who pissed in Red Celt's haggis? (or didn't piss.. I forget how to make haggis).

I've always stood up to bigots and bullies. If you'd sooner roll up into a ball and let them kick you, be my guest.

Meanwhile I'll give as good as I get... and then some.

[ronmcd]

Here's a question for Ronmcd, as I don't think I've seen anything about it. I think I know what the answer is, though. A separatist Scotland would inherit its per capita share of the armed forces, national debt etc etc. Would it relinquish any territorial claim to the remaining UK overseas territories, or would it want 8% of the Pitcairn Islands?

I've never seen anything about it either. But Scotland would be becoming an independent nation, like all the others in Europe. I see no possibility Scotland would have any desire to claim overseas territories, or any claim on them. Just as Scotland wouldnt be claiming 8 or 9% of Wales or England territory. The two parts would each retain per capita (or GDP) shares of assets and debts, as you suggest. 100% of territory and resources attributable to that territory. So any new oil and gas reserves around the Falklands? Not Scotlands business. Shale gas reserves in England? Not Scotlands business.

"Separatist" is of course a pejorative term for independence. Is UK a separatist state? When is US "Separation Day"?

[Tyrannical]

Here's a question for Ronmcd, as I don't think I've seen anything about it. I think I know what the answer is, though. A separatist Scotland would inherit its per capita share of the armed forces, national debt etc etc. Would it relinquish any territorial claim to the remaining UK overseas territories, or would it want 8% of the Pitcairn Islands?

Perfectly fair for the SNP to want the UK to divest itself from at least some non-British isle territories. You could either grant them full citizenship in a united countries or cut them free if it was mutually agreed. The key movement I think is a diminishing of Federal powers and an increase in local authority. Not so unlike the Ron Paul movement in the US.

[ronmcd]

...

So I think we all agree Scotland would be in EU, the question is immediately, or after a short negotiation, or after a long brutal series of arguments? I think sense will prevail and it will be pretty simple and seamless.

Aha! I think I see the problem. This is the EU you're dealing with. Common sense is not to be taken for granted. I'm Irish, and "negotiating" with the EU is only for those with inordinate patience, especially if you are from a small country with about 1% of the current EU population*. Salmond wants to get everything done and dusted with a year to spare. I think that's just a pipe-dream. Nothing ever goes smoothly with the EU, especially where there are power politics and money involved. I'd prefer if it were different, for the Scots as much as us Irish.

You might well be right, it might take some time. Whats ironic is it's conservative voting England which would be most leaning towards leaving EU. But hey ho, I see no reason why potential difficulties should stop us doing something, something that presumably would be worth doing in the long term if we were going to bother doing it at all.

[Svartalf]

So, who gets to be King of Scotland? Who would be Mary's closest Scottish relative? I bet the Pope could crown him while sitting above the coronation stone.

Scotland already has a monarch... and her mother was a Scot.

YOu wouldn't secede from UK and keep that harridan, latest of a long line of Hunnish usurpers for a head of state, would you?

It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks about that. The monarchy is not a part of the independence debate.

Not being a resident, I'm not directly concerned, but as a Stuart descendent, I'd be shocked if my countrymen kept those usurpers.

[Tyrannical]

As a Stuart decedent you are directly concerned. Blood is thicker than the English channel that separates you.

[klr]

...

So I think we all agree Scotland would be in EU, the question is immediately, or after a short negotiation, or after a long brutal series of arguments? I think sense will prevail and it will be pretty simple and seamless.

Aha! I think I see the problem. This is the EU you're dealing with. Common sense is not to be taken for granted. I'm Irish, and "negotiating" with the EU is only for those with inordinate patience, especially if you are from a small country with about 1% of the current EU population*. Salmond wants to get everything done and dusted with a year to spare. I think that's just a pipe-dream. Nothing ever goes smoothly with the EU, especially where there are power politics and money involved. I'd prefer if it were different, for the Scots as much as us Irish.

You might well be right, it might take some time. Whats ironic is it's conservative voting England which would be most leaning towards leaving EU. But hey ho, I see no reason why potential difficulties should stop us doing something, something that presumably would be worth doing in the long term if we were going to bother doing it at all.

I think I've alluded to this as well before. The anti-EU elements in England would use this to their own advantage. I suspect this makes those nearer the "centre" of English politics all the more concerned about a "Yes" vote. As you say, their problems are not your problems ... unless they react in such a way as to become your problem in some way or other. Life is rarely simple ...

[Svartalf]

I prefer the term "majority UK" to "Rump UK".

Given what comes out of Westminster and 10 Downing, anywhere with London in it has to be the rump

[Clinton Huxley]

I prefer the term "majority UK" to "Rump UK".

Given what comes out of Westminster and 10 Downing, anywhere with London in it has to be the rump

Now, now, London is France's fourth largest city...

[Jason]

So, who gets to be King of Scotland? Who would be Mary's closest Scottish relative? I bet the Pope could crown him while sitting above the coronation stone.

Scotland already has a monarch... and her mother was a Scot.

YOu wouldn't secede from UK and keep that harridan, latest of a long line of Hunnish usurpers for a head of state, would you?

It doesn't really matter what anyone thinks about that. The monarchy is not a part of the independence debate.

Not being a resident, I'm not directly concerned, but as a Stuart descendent, I'd be shocked if my countrymen kept those usurpers.

As a Plantagenet I'm inclined to invade those rebellious Scots, violently oppress them, and claim 'first rights' on all their women. As a Lindsay, however, I'm inclined to remove my pants and underwear, gird my kilt about my loins, and get piss drunk.

I'm a house divided.

[Tyrannical]

Wow, "first rights" is a term I haven't heard in a while. I wont diverge this thread so I wont share my views on it and evolutionary theory here. But you can literary be the seed of your own destruction.