An independent Scotland?

Post Reply
ronmcd
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Sunny Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:24 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
ronmcd wrote:
Tyrannical wrote:You kn+-ow, the BNP supports a win-win situation for this discussion :zilla:
Give the English an English Parliament, and drastically curtail the UK's parliamentary powers.
Why would an English Parliament be a win for the BNP, compared to a UK Parliament?
Because what the SNP ( I assume) wants is more independence to rule Scotland as the Scots see fit. Giving the English a Parliament would sap power from the UK Parliament, allowing for more local autonomy in all four countries.
Sure, I just dont see the connection to BNP? Would increased local autonomy mean more BNP election wins? I'm not sure, they don't do well in current local elections as far as I know. If there were new local parliaments elected using proportional representation, possibly.

User avatar
Red Celt
Humanist Misanthrope
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:30 pm
About me: Crow Philosopher
Location: Fife, Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Red Celt » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:25 pm

Rum wrote:I suspect you are missing yours most mornings these days. Might account for your nasty temper.
Nasty temper? I've had to deal with fuckwits like this for my whole life. This isn't a nasty temper... this is a justified outrage. Leave Scotland the fuck alone, in your shitty stereotype-hugging ways.

This is a decision for Scotland to make.
Image

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Rum » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:27 pm

:lol:

I will not post here again. Have fun.

ronmcd
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Sunny Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:28 pm

Rum wrote:It is true that there are more pandas in Scotland than there are Tory MPs.

From a purely selfish point of view if Scotland depart the wonder that is the Union I don't expect England, Wales and NI will see a Labour government in many years given that a good proportion of the United Kingdom's Labour voters are actually Scots residents.. To me that would be a heavy price to pay.
But it's very very rare that Scottish votes and consequently MP's affect the UK parliamentary majority. During the labour years from 1997, England voted Labour too, and (cant remember the exact numbers) there have apparently only been a small number of times the Scottish MP's being removed would have changed a result.

It's not really true that the Tories would rule unopposed.

User avatar
Bella Fortuna
Sister Golden Hair
Posts: 79685
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:45 am
About me: Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?
I have no precious time at all to spend,
Nor services to do, till you require.
Location: Scotlifornia
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Bella Fortuna » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:29 pm

Hey - a polite general request from someone who hasn't followed this whole thread and probably doesn't understand the degree of passion involved in this topic - can we please stop the personal jibes and snark? It's unpleasant and unproductive.
Sent from my Bollocksberry using Crapatalk.
Image
Food, cooking, and disreputable nonsense: http://miscreantsdiner.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Red Celt
Humanist Misanthrope
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:30 pm
About me: Crow Philosopher
Location: Fife, Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Red Celt » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:29 pm

Rum wrote::lol:

I will not post here again. Have fun.
Good. Now, take your walking buddy with you. You know the one... the bigot that you didn't have a single word of complaint about.

Complaining about nasty tempers... :lol:
Image

User avatar
Tyrannical
Posts: 6468
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 4:59 am
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Tyrannical » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:29 pm

Red Celt wrote:Bigoted coward (or should that be cowardly bigot?) just can't stay away from this thread.
There is nothing cowardly about a bigot, they are brave people speaking their mind. And yes I know you were not addressing me ( I think :hehe: )
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

MrJonno
Posts: 3442
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:24 am
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by MrJonno » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:36 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:Hey - a polite general request from someone who hasn't followed this whole thread and probably doesn't understand the degree of passion involved in this topic - can we please stop the personal jibes and snark? It's unpleasant and unproductive.
Is there really that much passion, some people in Scotland want indepenence, some don't , but most of the rest of the UK don't care either way?. This isnt the Balkans
When only criminals carry guns the police know exactly who to shoot!

User avatar
Red Celt
Humanist Misanthrope
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:30 pm
About me: Crow Philosopher
Location: Fife, Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Red Celt » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:38 pm

MrJonno wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:Hey - a polite general request from someone who hasn't followed this whole thread and probably doesn't understand the degree of passion involved in this topic - can we please stop the personal jibes and snark? It's unpleasant and unproductive.
Is there really that much passion, some people in Scotland want indepenence, some don't , but most of the rest of the UK don't care either way?. This isnt the Balkans
You missed out the anti-Scots and how Scots are meant to ignore their inbuilt snark. Or the people who are incapable of seeing past stereotypes of fish suppers and porridge.
Image

ronmcd
Posts: 603
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Sunny Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by ronmcd » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:41 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:Ronmcd, you seem to be arguing that Scotland definitely would be a successor state but the majority UK might not be.
No, there are apparently a few possibilities, some more likely than others. One is both parts of a post independence UK would be successor states, inheriting all the rights and responsibilities, another is one would be a successor state and one not. Of course in the second situation, it is Scotland that would be breaking the UK, so would be the one which was not a successor state.

The question is really whether both parts would be treated the same, or not. I believe the legal standing of UK (a legal union not a single country) means there is doubt over which option will happen. UK politicians in Parliament have claimed in the past that whatever happens to Scotland would happen to the rest of UK, not to mention some academics etc, so it's not a new problem.

I have no idea my self what will happen. But because (talking about the EU specifically here) there is no real precedent for the UK/Scotland situation within EU, it will probably be politics and expediancy. In the same way that the YES/NO rhetoric will be tasty right up until the referendum but will surely be calm and sensible after, I suspect once the result is known and agreed between the parties, the EU will have no problem with it.

Incidentally, the SNP dont claim it would be immediate and automatic, they may well have done in the past, but these days they talk about "negotiating from within EU". I think that represents the real situation - the EU does NOT want 5 million scots, including many EU citizens from other countries who will get a vote ironically, to suddenly be out of the EU, in addition to the oil and gas, renewables energy, fishing etc etc.

So I think we all agree Scotland would be in EU, the question is immediately, or after a short negotiation, or after a long brutal series of arguments? I think sense will prevail and it will be pretty simple and seamless.

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:48 pm

Here's a question for Ronmcd, as I don't think I've seen anything about it. I think I know what the answer is, though. A separatist Scotland would inherit its per capita share of the armed forces, national debt etc etc. Would it relinquish any territorial claim to the remaining UK overseas territories, or would it want 8% of the Pitcairn Islands?
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
Bella Fortuna
Sister Golden Hair
Posts: 79685
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:45 am
About me: Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?
I have no precious time at all to spend,
Nor services to do, till you require.
Location: Scotlifornia
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Bella Fortuna » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:51 pm

Red Celt wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:Hey - a polite general request from someone who hasn't followed this whole thread and probably doesn't understand the degree of passion involved in this topic - can we please stop the personal jibes and snark? It's unpleasant and unproductive.
Is there really that much passion, some people in Scotland want indepenence, some don't , but most of the rest of the UK don't care either way?. This isnt the Balkans
You missed out the anti-Scots and how Scots are meant to ignore their inbuilt snark. Or the people who are incapable of seeing past stereotypes of fish suppers and porridge.
How many threads do we have here about British stereotypes vs. American stereotypes? Where Canadians, or Scandinavians, or Californians, or people from the south in the US, or the Irish, or men, or women, or gingers, or blondes, or computer geeks, or Yorkshire people, or even (gasp!) the Welsh are teased? Plenty. It's part of what we do here, and I'd say for the hugely vast majority of interactions along such lines are meant lightheartedly and are taken so.

Remind me to pitch a fit next time someone makes a crack about blondes being stupid, or that I'm a Valley girl, or am from a state full of wooists and hippies, or that I'm American in general, because it probably won't cross my mind to.
Sent from my Bollocksberry using Crapatalk.
Image
Food, cooking, and disreputable nonsense: http://miscreantsdiner.blogspot.com/

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23746
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:52 pm

It seems that the skin of some Scots is not merely pasty white but paper thin.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
Red Celt
Humanist Misanthrope
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:30 pm
About me: Crow Philosopher
Location: Fife, Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Red Celt » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:55 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:Remind me to pitch a fit next time someone makes a crack about blondes being stupid
Now imagine someone who is vocally and actively anti-blonde. Now imagine that a friend of that anti-blonde (who hasn't criticised any of his friend's anti-blonde comments) resorts to anti-blonde stereotypes. Would you see the usage of that stereotype as harmless as other stereotypes? Or might you think it reasonable to assume that there is deeper substance to that particular person resorting to stereotypes?

Read the whole thread, Bella. Then tell me your thoughts on some of the people who have been "contributing" here, and why their "contributions" have resulted in "snark".
Image

User avatar
Red Celt
Humanist Misanthrope
Posts: 1349
Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:30 pm
About me: Crow Philosopher
Location: Fife, Scotland
Contact:

Re: An independent Scotland?

Post by Red Celt » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:56 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:It seems that the skin of some Scots is not merely pasty white but paper thin.
Case in point. Bigots can go fuck themselves.
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 27 guests