Having a form of identification to vote.

[MrJonno]

Support public money to ensure everyone can get ID then its pro democracy,

No public money then its basically the right manipulating the vote, has any politician supported using public resources to ensure people get ID's?. Someone I suspect not

[Coito ergo sum]

Support public money to ensure everyone can get ID then its pro democracy,

No public money then its basically the right manipulating the vote, has any politician supported using public resources to ensure people get ID's?. Someone I suspect not

People who can't afford the $25 to get an ID, can get the fee waived.

Why "the right?" We've been told here that the "the left" is way smarter than "the right." Shouldn't it be "the right" who have more difficulty completing such a simple task? Or, are the brainy Democrats less able to navigate the complex world of drivers licenses and identifications?

[Ian]

Yeah, that must be it. They're too dumb to understand how to get a photo ID. Brilliant, Holmes.

[Tyrannical]

Support public money to ensure everyone can get ID then its pro democracy,

No public money then its basically the right manipulating the vote, has any politician supported using public resources to ensure people get ID's?. Someone I suspect not

The poor can get free State IDs where I live, as I'm sure they can in most if not all other places.

Without an ID you can't get welfare, so the poor have to have an ID. Us working stiffs can't get a job without an ID so we have to have one. Really, there is no way to legally function day to day in this society without having an ID.

[Coito ergo sum]

Yeah, that must be it. They're too dumb to understand how to get a photo ID. Brilliant, Holmes.

Well, it can't be because they can't afford it, because if a person is poor, they can get the fee waived, and if they're not poor they can pay $25.

What is the reason they aren't able to get photo IDs?

And, I keep hearing how this "disproportionately effects blacks and other minorities." If that is the case, then the requirement that people have ID for ANY reason is racially discriminatory. It would be, effectively, disproportionately excluding blacks and other minorities from places of public accommodations, workplaces and employment, and government benefits that require IDs. So, if it is racially discriminatory to require IDs for voting, then it is necessarily discriminatory to require IDs for any other thing.

[Coito ergo sum]

Support public money to ensure everyone can get ID then its pro democracy,

No public money then its basically the right manipulating the vote, has any politician supported using public resources to ensure people get ID's?. Someone I suspect not

The poor can get free State IDs where I live, as I'm sure they can in most if not all other places.

Without an ID you can't get welfare, so the poor have to have an ID. Us working stiffs can't get a job without an ID so we have to have one. Really, there is no way to legally function day to day in this society without having an ID.

And, without an ID, most places allow you to cast a provisional ballot by affidavit. So, again, no harm, no foul, eh?

[Ian]

Free entertainment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pKEuonNf44

[MrJonno]

And, I keep hearing how this "disproportionately effects blacks and other minorities." If that is the case, then the requirement that people have ID for ANY reason is racially discriminatory. It would be, effectively, disproportionately excluding blacks and other minorities from places of public accommodations, workplaces and employment, and government benefits that require IDs. So, if it is racially discriminatory to require IDs for voting, then it is necessarily discriminatory to require IDs for any other thing.

I'm trying to think how often I have ever legally needed to use photo id, it's pretty rare to be honest air travel (foreign only), criminal record check and doing some university exams.

Never needed one for government benefits , medical care or work. When I have needed ID its generally be sufficient to supply a utility bill with my name on (which can be a pain if your name isnt on it). No bank has ever asked for one through to be honest your photo on a credit card doesnt seem such a bad idea. I'm guessing it might be too expensive ti implement through there could be digital copy.


Curious is there any public money spent encouraging people to vote in the US, there is in the UK with plenty of tax payer funded money encouraging people to get registered. I don't remember it being particuarly controversial.


As for electoral fraud biggest worry has got to be postal votal not voting in person which has to be a relatively high risk crime for little personal gain while with postal voting you can just claim you didnt fill in the forms while with in person voting you risk witnesses or CCTV images (not in the voting booth obviously)

[Coito ergo sum]

And, I keep hearing how this "disproportionately effects blacks and other minorities." If that is the case, then the requirement that people have ID for ANY reason is racially discriminatory. It would be, effectively, disproportionately excluding blacks and other minorities from places of public accommodations, workplaces and employment, and government benefits that require IDs. So, if it is racially discriminatory to require IDs for voting, then it is necessarily discriminatory to require IDs for any other thing.

I'm trying to think how often I have ever legally needed to use photo id, it's pretty rare to be honest air travel (foreign only), criminal record check and doing some university exams.

Getting into a bar or club, buying cigarettes, buying alcohol, reserving a hotel room, getting on an airplane, holding any sort of employment whatsoever (I-9 procedures in the US require employment eligibility and either citizenship or eligibility to work must be proved within 3 days after commencing employment or the employer is violating the law for employing the employee -- that requires identification).

You may argue that bars and cigarettes and alcohol are not constitutional rights, as some do, but that isn't the point -- equal protection of the laws is also a constitutional right and a law which makes it harder for racial minorities to buy beer and cigarettes or stay in hotel rooms and get on airplanes is unconstitutional. And, discrimination by private persons in places of public accommodation like hotels, pubs, bars, and convenience stores is illegal under State and Federal law -- so by requiring ID to buy a pack of smokes, if it is more likely that blacks and other minorities will not have IDs, the store is discriminating against blacks and other minorities. Same with hotels and airplanes. Making it harder for blacks and minorities to get on airplanes is discrimination.

Never needed one for government benefits , medical care or work. When I have needed ID its generally be sufficient to supply a utility bill with my name on (which can be a pain if your name isnt on it). No bank has ever asked for one through to be honest your photo on a credit card doesnt seem such a bad idea. I'm guessing it might be too expensive ti implement through there could be digital copy.

In the US, you need to photo identification to close a mortgage loan, and you need identification to open a bank account.

Curious is there any public money spent encouraging people to vote in the US, there is in the UK with plenty of tax payer funded money encouraging people to get registered. I don't remember it being particuarly controversial.

Registering to vote is as easy as showing up at any number of offices in every county of every state and filing out a one page form. And there is no fee. Once registered, you never have to go back. Address changes can be done by mail.

As for electoral fraud biggest worry has got to be postal votal not voting in person which has to be a relatively high risk crime for little personal gain while with postal voting you can just claim you didnt fill in the forms while with in person voting you risk witnesses or CCTV images (not in the voting booth obviously)

Generally, postal voting is scrutinized heavily if there is a contested election -- one which is close. Then they go through the ballots one by one and discard ineligible voters. The US has no consistent postal voting system. Some allow liberal voting by mail, and others require that you be absent from the jurisdiction for some acceptable reason. The trend is to liberalize the vote-by-mail, and that is a big problem. The same thing with "early voting" -- there are many states which allow people to vote over many days, which I think is not a great idea.

Computerized voting is my biggest concern. I want nothing to do with voting over the internet or electronically. The best way to vote is by a decentralized system of paper balloting, where each county or precinct handles ballots on the order of thousands, and the parties are represented at the polling places to make sure the other side doesn't pull a fast one. The little old ladies counting ballots is the way to go. For all its faults, it presents the most hurdles to fixing an election. A computerized system can be controlled by those who control the computer. I want nothing to do with it.

[Tyrannical]

Democrat Congressman's son and campaign director busted for voter fraud and resigns
Caught on video tape discussing ways to forge utility payment bills to bypass Virginia's voter ID law.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-575 ... aud-video/
http://www.wnd.com/2012/10/video-captur ... ote-fraud/

Moran suggests creating fake utility bills to serve as voter ID. But he warns that there will be “a lot of voter protection” at the polling places to enforce the identification laws.

“So, if they just have the utility bill or bank statement – bank statement would obviously be tough … but faking a utility bill would be easy enough,” Moran says.

If there’s any trouble, he says, an Obama for America lawyer, or another Democrat lawyer, will be on hand to provide help, he said.

“You’ll have somebody in house, that if they feel that what you have is legitimate, they’ll argue for you,” Moran says.

But he warns the reporter that the utility bill has “got to look good.”

Later, at the Arlington County Democratic Party office, Moran advises the reporter to contact the registered voters on the list to make sure they don’t plan to cast a ballot Nov. 6. He suggests obtaining the information by posing as a pollster.

[MrJonno]

Getting into a bar or club, buying cigarettes, buying alcohol, reserving a hotel room, getting on an airplane, holding any sort of employment whatsoever (I-9 procedures in the US require employment eligibility and either citizenship or eligibility to work must be proved within 3 days after commencing employment or the employer is violating the law for employing the employee -- that requires identification).

You may argue that bars and cigarettes and alcohol are not constitutional rights, as some do, but that isn't the point -- equal protection of the laws is also a constitutional right and a law which makes it harder for racial minorities to buy beer and cigarettes or stay in hotel rooms and get on airplanes is unconstitutional. And, discrimination by private persons in places of public accommodation like hotels, pubs, bars, and convenience stores is illegal under State and Federal law -- so by requiring ID to buy a pack of smokes, if it is more likely that blacks and other minorities will not have IDs, the store is discriminating against blacks and other minorities. Same with hotels and airplanes. Making it harder for blacks and minorities to get on airplanes is discrimination.

Americans do seem to be big on photo ID then again we love our CCTV , the government here probably has more photo's of us than we do:)

There are requirements for shops to make reasonable efforts to ensure age compliancy but I not aware that they have to ask for photo ID to do so.

Definitely never used any for banks or mortgages and they do have strict anti money laundering laws, but they determine who I am by getting me to feel lots of paperwork in and questioning me if anyone it doesnt match up. Credit referencing agencies tend to know everything about you one way or the other

[Tyrannical]

Went to the drugstore today, noticed they have a sign requiring photo ID before handing over controlled substances.
You can vote without an ID, but you cant pick up your medication without it.

[Coito ergo sum]

Getting into a bar or club, buying cigarettes, buying alcohol, reserving a hotel room, getting on an airplane, holding any sort of employment whatsoever (I-9 procedures in the US require employment eligibility and either citizenship or eligibility to work must be proved within 3 days after commencing employment or the employer is violating the law for employing the employee -- that requires identification).

You may argue that bars and cigarettes and alcohol are not constitutional rights, as some do, but that isn't the point -- equal protection of the laws is also a constitutional right and a law which makes it harder for racial minorities to buy beer and cigarettes or stay in hotel rooms and get on airplanes is unconstitutional. And, discrimination by private persons in places of public accommodation like hotels, pubs, bars, and convenience stores is illegal under State and Federal law -- so by requiring ID to buy a pack of smokes, if it is more likely that blacks and other minorities will not have IDs, the store is discriminating against blacks and other minorities. Same with hotels and airplanes. Making it harder for blacks and minorities to get on airplanes is discrimination.

Americans do seem to be big on photo ID then again we love our CCTV , the government here probably has more photo's of us than we do:)

I doubt we're any "bigger" on it than most other western countries. Norway requires a photo ID, and most continental European countries require everyone to have an ID card.

There are requirements for shops to make reasonable efforts to ensure age compliancy but I not aware that they have to ask for photo ID to do so.

In the US they have to ask for identification. However, if there is a reasonable effort other than (a) looking at a person and making an easily faulty judgment as to how old a person "looks" or (b) taking their word for it, other than asking for identification, you'll have to explain what that is. Mind reading exists in the UK?

Definitely never used any for banks or mortgages and they do have strict anti money laundering laws, but they determine who I am by getting me to feel lots of paperwork in and questioning me if anyone it doesnt match up. Credit referencing agencies tend to know everything about you one way or the other

Credit referencing agencies have a lot of information, but they don't know that a person claiming to be you is, in fact, you. That is where ID comes in.

And, not that it matters, but I just learned from the googles that people looking to get a mortgage in the UK are required to produce identification (passport or drivers license are the main IDs), as well as proof of address, proof of income, and 6 to 12 months of bank statements and pay records.

[Coito ergo sum]

Went to the drugstore today, noticed they have a sign requiring photo ID before handing over controlled substances.
You can vote without an ID, but you cant pick up your medication without it.

LOL - you can't by Sudafed without an ID. Discriminatory against minorities, I guess, who must now suffer from allergies at disproportionately high rates because they are disproportionately unable to acquire identification.

[Santa_Claus]

Just curious - whats's the object to voting early / an extended voting period?