Catholic Church silence dissent within the ranks.

[Cormac]

I'm Irish.

Can I join your club. I really hate the Romans Catholicism!

If you were to challenge me, for example, by sceptically saying "Oh yeah?, and then asking me "How much", I should reply "A lot!".


The Catholic Church was dead against the liberation of Ireland, but afterwards became greener than green.

I've never liked the duplicitous fuckers, nor their sanctimonious can't.

I can abide their deceitful long game either.

[Seth]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

[Cormac]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

I recall debating this point with you in the past where you denied they were in the "employ" of the church.

[Svartalf]

Dang, can't they get that if you want to rock the boat, you either have to be at least a cardinal (and discreet), or go out and found your new flavor?

[Svartalf]

And you were expecting rational behaviour from a religious institution because...?

As far as religion goes Catholicism is generally one of the most rational. It's not like they haven't had reformation in the past either. Despite what some of them say their doctrine can, and has, been changed.

No it hasn't. Insanus LDVIIII said so and St Peter himself laid out the cult of Mary and the dogma of Papal Infallibility

[Seth]

I recall debating this point with you in the past where you denied they were in the "employ" of the church.

I doubt it. It's true that in America the churches are usually owned by the parishes or diocese rather than the Vatican itself, and wages are paid by the diocese or parish, but they operate as "Catholic" churches only with the permission of the Vatican and the Pope and subject to his orders, and their staff must comply with Catholic doctrine in order to legally call themselves "Catholic."

Many excommunicated priests have tried to found splinter Catholic churches and have lost the right to call themselves "Catholic" in court. It's a trademark of the Catholic church, you see.

It's like Rotarians or other fraternal or social groups, like Little League. The local chapters are run and paid for locally, but they operate under the auspices of the national organization and must abide by its rules if they wish to use the trademark of the organization. Same thing with the Boy Scouts.

For the purposes of financial liability, which is what I believe we were discussing, the "Catholic Church" is not one single business entity, and each diocese, and indeed most individual parishes are independent 501c3 entities operating under a common name, but not under common ownership, which means that if the Diocese of Boston is saddled with a 700 million dollar penalty by the courts, that debt cannot be levied against the Diocese of Denver or the Vatican itself because while they subscribe to the same ideology, they are not one single legal entity, each unit being fiscally and legally liable for it's own actions separate from every other unit. This is what prevents those who claim abuse from suing the Vatican over abuse by a local parish priest 50 years ago. They have to sue that church, or that diocese, or that priest, because that is where the harm occurred.

The current attempts to include other levels of the church in lawsuits are based on the theory of vicarious liability and conspiracy regarding the suppression of complaints or evidence of sex abuse by a particular priest on the part of higher levels of authority within the church hierarchy, not because the Vatican is legally responsible for everything every individual priest or church employee might do that's wrongful.

[Animavore]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

t is indeed a private club but it's one which isn't listening to the voice of its members. Fr. Flannery is merely reflecting the views of the general, Irish public who want to see change in the Church.

But, how and ever, them not listening to the people is, as you say, their own business. They're fastly dwindling and that's not a bad thing. Fr Flannery is only trying to save them from drowning.

[Seth]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

t is indeed a private club but it's one which isn't listening to the voice of its members. Fr. Flannery is merely reflecting the views of the general, Irish public who want to see change in the Church.

Unfortunately for Apostate Flannery and the general Irish public the bylaws of the club give God, through his Vicar on Earth, the Pope, exclusive and plenary power to make or deny changes to church doctrine, not "its members," and certainly not the Irish public.

But, how and ever, them not listening to the people is, as you say, their own business. They're fastly dwindling and that's not a bad thing. Fr Flannery is only trying to save them from drowning.

Then he should fuck off and start his own splinter religion rather than falsely calling himself a "Catholic" when clearly he's not.

[Cormac]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

t is indeed a private club but it's one which isn't listening to the voice of its members. Fr. Flannery is merely reflecting the views of the general, Irish public who want to see change in the Church.

Unfortunately for Apostate Flannery and the general Irish public the bylaws of the club give God, through his Vicar on Earth, the Pope, exclusive and plenary power to make or deny changes to church doctrine, not "its members," and certainly not the Irish public.

But, how and ever, them not listening to the people is, as you say, their own business. They're fastly dwindling and that's not a bad thing. Fr Flannery is only trying to save them from drowning.

Then he should fuck off and start his own splinter religion rather than falsely calling himself a "Catholic" when clearly he's not.

The church can fuck off out of our country, as soon as it has paid up what it owes in compensation for the rape and subsequent cover up of said rape of children over 50 years. (Instead of liquidating assets, transferring the money out of the country, and then pleading poverty - which is what they're doing).

[Seth]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

t is indeed a private club but it's one which isn't listening to the voice of its members. Fr. Flannery is merely reflecting the views of the general, Irish public who want to see change in the Church.

Unfortunately for Apostate Flannery and the general Irish public the bylaws of the club give God, through his Vicar on Earth, the Pope, exclusive and plenary power to make or deny changes to church doctrine, not "its members," and certainly not the Irish public.

But, how and ever, them not listening to the people is, as you say, their own business. They're fastly dwindling and that's not a bad thing. Fr Flannery is only trying to save them from drowning.

Then he should fuck off and start his own splinter religion rather than falsely calling himself a "Catholic" when clearly he's not.

The church can fuck off out of our country, as soon as it has paid up what it owes in compensation for the rape and subsequent cover up of said rape of children over 50 years. (Instead of liquidating assets, transferring the money out of the country, and then pleading poverty - which is what they're doing).

It could, but it won't, because there are many Catholics in Ireland and as long as there are Catholics, there will be a Catholic church to serve their religious needs. Both the Irish Catholics and the other one billion Catholics on earth.

So, suck it up buttercup, the Catholic church is here to stay. it's survived for some 2000 years now and it'll survive your ire.

[Animavore]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

t is indeed a private club but it's one which isn't listening to the voice of its members. Fr. Flannery is merely reflecting the views of the general, Irish public who want to see change in the Church.

Unfortunately for Apostate Flannery and the general Irish public the bylaws of the club give God, through his Vicar on Earth, the Pope, exclusive and plenary power to make or deny changes to church doctrine, not "its members," and certainly not the Irish public.

I have absolutely no disagreement here. The Church can do as it pleases. I'm glad they are because their outdated views are causing rapid decline and irrelevance in this country. Only one priest was ordained in this country last year. Whole dioceses are being merged into one as the aging priests die off. There has been a four-fold increase in non-believers since '91 according to last year's census and the pews are kept warm by Polish and African immigrants. These are happy times. I favour the Church's refusal to get with the times. Let it continue.

But, how and ever, them not listening to the people is, as you say, their own business. They're fastly dwindling and that's not a bad thing. Fr Flannery is only trying to save them from drowning.

Then he should fuck off and start his own splinter religion rather than falsely calling himself a "Catholic" when clearly he's not.

Maybe he will. Maybe he will.

[Cormac]

It's a private club. If you don't like the rules then fuck off and start your own club with whatever rules you like. But nobody gets to be in the employ of the Catholic Church and wield church authority if they don't accept Catholic dogma. They should just boot his ass out without further comment as an apostate.

t is indeed a private club but it's one which isn't listening to the voice of its members. Fr. Flannery is merely reflecting the views of the general, Irish public who want to see change in the Church.

Unfortunately for Apostate Flannery and the general Irish public the bylaws of the club give God, through his Vicar on Earth, the Pope, exclusive and plenary power to make or deny changes to church doctrine, not "its members," and certainly not the Irish public.

But, how and ever, them not listening to the people is, as you say, their own business. They're fastly dwindling and that's not a bad thing. Fr Flannery is only trying to save them from drowning.

Then he should fuck off and start his own splinter religion rather than falsely calling himself a "Catholic" when clearly he's not.

The church can fuck off out of our country, as soon as it has paid up what it owes in compensation for the rape and subsequent cover up of said rape of children over 50 years. (Instead of liquidating assets, transferring the money out of the country, and then pleading poverty - which is what they're doing).

It could, but it won't, because there are many Catholics in Ireland and as long as there are Catholics, there will be a Catholic church to serve their religious needs. Both the Irish Catholics and the other one billion Catholics on earth.

So, suck it up buttercup, the Catholic church is here to stay. it's survived for some 2000 years now and it'll survive your ire.

No worries Daisy.

It is becoming increasingly likely that some kind of schism is coming.

It seems to me that the Irish temperament is not a natural match for authoritarian Roman Catholicism. The latter was imported to Ireland as part of a deal cut between the Vatican and Britain to end the penal laws in Ireland. The penal laws mixed up Catholicism with the liberation "movement", and this unnatural union finally seems to be breaking.

But don't worry your sensitive little mind about it, treacle.

[Animavore]

It seems to me that the Irish temperament is not a natural match for authoritarian Roman Catholicism. The latter was imported to Ireland as part of a deal cut between the Vatican and Britain to end the penal laws in Ireland. The penal laws mixed up Catholicism with the liberation "movement", and this unnatural union finally seems to be breaking.

You mean it didn't begin with St. Paddy? Surely the Church didn't lie to me? Where can I learn more?

[Cormac]

It seems to me that the Irish temperament is not a natural match for authoritarian Roman Catholicism. The latter was imported to Ireland as part of a deal cut between the Vatican and Britain to end the penal laws in Ireland. The penal laws mixed up Catholicism with the liberation "movement", and this unnatural union finally seems to be breaking.

You mean it didn't begin with St. Paddy? Surely the Church didn't lie to me? Where can I learn more?

Christianity in Ireland probably did.

Of a nominally Catholic variety. But it was not controlled from Rome, which was a thorn in their side. It was only with the return of Catholicism after the repeal of the penal laws that authoritarian Roman Catholicism, with all the hatred of sex and the rest came to Ireland.

[Animavore]

It seems to me that the Irish temperament is not a natural match for authoritarian Roman Catholicism. The latter was imported to Ireland as part of a deal cut between the Vatican and Britain to end the penal laws in Ireland. The penal laws mixed up Catholicism with the liberation "movement", and this unnatural union finally seems to be breaking.

You mean it didn't begin with St. Paddy? Surely the Church didn't lie to me? Where can I learn more?

Christianity in Ireland probably did.

Of a nominally Catholic variety. But it was not controlled from Rome, which was a thorn in their side. It was only with the return of Catholicism after the repeal of the penal laws that authoritarian Roman Catholicism, with all the hatred of sex and the rest came to Ireland.

You mean hatred of consensual sex between grown adults