2012 Vice Presidential Debate - October 11 - Biden v. Ryan

[FBM]

Could everyone (especially Kiki and CES) try to restrain their emotions on contentious subjects and play nice? Thanks.

Coito, This post contains multiple, personal attacks on another member. Please cut it out. http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3449

[SteveB]

POLITICS!!!!!!!

[Wumbologist]

Medicare and SS will remain untouched, the budget will be balanced, and we'll pay down the debt".

YES, BUT FOR WHOM?

FOR THOSE THAT ARE 55 AND OLDER.

sorry, the rest of you are on your own.

Indeed, we get a much superior premium support plan that lets us choose our own health care plan. If you're 55 or older, you're out of luck.

And they're going to pay for it with special magic while simultaneously cutting taxes across the board by 20%! While spending an extra 2 trillion the military hasn't asked for! We'll spend more of less money and reduce the deficit at the same time, and everyone gets a pony! EVERYONE GETS A PONY!

[kiki5711]

Medicare and SS will remain untouched, the budget will be balanced, and we'll pay down the debt".

YES, BUT FOR WHOM?

FOR THOSE THAT ARE 55 AND OLDER.

sorry, the rest of you are on your own.

Indeed, we get a much superior premium support plan that lets us choose our own health care plan. If you're 55 or older, you're out of luck.

what you get is a "voucher" not a plan. Insurance companies will reject you for any little thing they can find, as fast as a fart blowing in the wind.

[macdoc]

here is a surprise

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... ack-obama/

[Kristie]

here is a surprise

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... ack-obama/

It's only a surprise to people that believe everything the Romney campaign spews.

[kiki5711]

here is a surprise

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... ack-obama/

It's only a surprise to people that believe everything the Romney campaign spews.

The logic is so simple a 5th grader could understand it. But NOT to the Romney supporters. They think the moment new President steps into the office, there's some kind of magic wand that will make everything "pretty". And if it isn't, the new President is at fault. Geeeszzzs, my lord all mighty, how complicated is that to understand.

[Ian]

Definitely not a surprise to those of us who work for the government and have seen our workforce shrink and our salaries frozen for three years. It's a conservative article of faith that Obama has been expanding the government, but that has little to do with reality. And I'd actually prefer it if it were true.

[Coito ergo sum]

Could everyone (especially Kiki and CES) try to restrain their emotions on contentious subjects and play nice? Thanks.

Coito, This post contains multiple, personal attacks on another member. Please cut it out. http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3449

For the record, Kiki started with the personal attacks. I'm fine with taking my medicine, but don't let her off the hook.

[Coito ergo sum]

Medicare and SS will remain untouched, the budget will be balanced, and we'll pay down the debt".

YES, BUT FOR WHOM?

FOR THOSE THAT ARE 55 AND OLDER.

sorry, the rest of you are on your own.

Indeed, we get a much superior premium support plan that lets us choose our own health care plan. If you're 55 or older, you're out of luck.

And they're going to pay for it with special magic while simultaneously cutting taxes across the board by 20%! While spending an extra 2 trillion the military hasn't asked for! We'll spend more of less money and reduce the deficit at the same time, and everyone gets a pony! EVERYONE GETS A PONY!

This nonsense rings hollow,when we see the Democrats consistently overspending by anywhere between $1.1 trillion and $1.3 trillion, every year.

News flash: the Democrats are just printing money. If that's what you call being responsible about paying for programs, then you can keep it.

[Ian]

News Flash: the deficit has gone *down* since Obama came into office. Care to discuss how much it exploded under the last administration?

[Wumbologist]

News Flash: the deficit has gone *down* since Obama came into office. Care to discuss how much it exploded under the last administration?

Of course they don't, even Romney did as much to distance himself from Bush as he could in this last debate, because they *KNOW* where this shit came from and they *KNOW* the American people won't put shit like that in office again, at least if they get a whiff of it first.

This nonsense rings hollow,when we see the Democrats consistently overspending by anywhere between $1.1 trillion and $1.3 trillion, every year.

News flash: the Democrats are just printing money. If that's what you call being responsible about paying for programs, then you can keep it.

Whether or not the Democrats are doing it the way you think they should, doesn't make Romney's tax plan any less mathematically impossible.

[Coito ergo sum]

here is a surprise

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 ... ack-obama/

It's actually a deceptive chart. One, much of 2009 spending is attributable to Obama, because that is the year of the Stimulus, which is Obama's spending. And, the 2009 budget includes the Wall Street bailout, which makes the 2010 budget look small by comparison.

Just because Obama hasn't increased spending beyond the $1.1 to $1.3 annual deficits he is running, doesn't make him thrifty. He still has increased the debt as much as Bush did in 8 years.

The Obama administration also claims a credit for the repayment of TARP, which was spent under Bush, but repayed in part under Obama. That doesn't compute from a spending reduction or control standpoint.

The federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac also makes Obama's record on spending look better than it was. The government spent $96 billion on the Fannie-Freddie takeovers in 2009 but only $40 billion on them in 2010. By the administration's reckoning, the $56 billion difference was a spending cut by Obama. Magic spending cuts.

[Coito ergo sum]

News Flash: the deficit has gone *down* since Obama came into office. Care to discuss how much it exploded under the last administration?

Marginally down, yes. Although, not "since" Obama came to office. One, the deficit was $1.4 trillion in 2009, with a great deal of that attributable to Obama, who went in and jacked up the budget deficit much higher than it would have been if the Bush budget was left in place. He then claims it went "down" to $1.293 trillion in 2010, because of the monstrous budget deficit of 2009 (which he contributed to heavily). Then the deficit went UP again, in 2011, to $1.3 trillion. So it has not been a declining trend. In 2012 it did tick down about $1.1 trillion again, but if you want to call those numbers "going down" then you can have at it. It looks more like a nearly flat set of massive spending, with no end in sight. He promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term. Failed.

[Coito ergo sum]

Whether or not the Democrats are doing it the way you think they should, doesn't make Romney's tax plan any less mathematically impossible.

it's only mathematically impossible if you mischaracterize his plan and leave out parts of it.