An independent Scotland?

[Feck]

Historically Scotland has given the world much as part of the British empire this Ra Ra Scotland stuff avoids that fact and harps back to a golden age that never existed ....Remind me again when was Scotland last a united independent country ?

I wasn't aware of any serious endemic anti-Scots racism when I lived in England there were Scottish children at my School it wasn't an issue my Grandfather is Scottish there are no family tales about how he was abused You can drive to my previous home in England without passing Anti-Scot graffiti .I Never heard the ubiquitous phrase paralleled 'Fuck the Scottish !' EVAH !

[Svartalf]

Around 1600, maybe 1655.
Things get muddied after the union of the crowns in 1603, and even less after cromwell's great butcherwork.

Then again, England always tried to conquer the Scots, while the Scots came to rule England by Chance, and not for long, nor without problems.

[Red Celt]

Historically Scotland has given the world much as part of the British empire this Ra Ra Scotland stuff avoids that fact and harps back to a golden age that never existed ....Remind me again when was Scotland last a united independent country ?

I wasn't aware of any serious endemic anti-Scots racism when I lived in England there were Scottish children at my School it wasn't an issue my Grandfather is Scottish there are no family tales about how he was abused You can drive to my previous home in England without passing Anti-Scot graffiti .I Never heard the ubiquitous phrase paralleled 'Fuck the Scottish !' EVAH !

And I'm sure that there weren't any anti-Jewish forms of graffiti on the walls of Ancient Rome.

Monty Python references aside, ignoring the history between the 2 countries is playing a very poor poker hand.

[ronmcd]

Historically Scotland has given the world much as part of the British empire this Ra Ra Scotland stuff avoids that fact and harps back to a golden age that never existed ....Remind me again when was Scotland last a united independent country ?

Has anyone on this thread endulged in "this Ra Ra Scotland stuff"? It's just a strawman. Political control, from Holyrood not Westminister. Thats it.

[Cormac]

Why ? I know I'm against Independence because I'm not convinced it makes any financial sense for Scotland but why are you so anti ?

Because logic say's it's the opposite way we should be going.
The countries of Europe have come closer together, with the EU, and with modern communication and travel it all makes sense. Seperation just causes friction.

Also, it's just expesive duplication of government. Look what the Scottish parliament has cost, not just the building, but the salaries.
If there is unfairness in the current system, it's that that should be changed, not the borders.

With Ireland, it was religion that drove it, emotionally. You had a protestant set of landowners, grinding down the catholics, and not giving a shit when they were starving.
You don't have that in Scotland. All you have is some stupid line, drawn by long-dead kings.

I would personally dissolve the scottish parliament, and make the building into a fantastic concert venue, if I was in power.
And the same for the Welsh assembly.
Or maybe replace them with major government departments, so that it wasn't all carried on in London.

Ahem.

In Ireland it was not religion that caused it, but dominance by a foreign government, that for the most part regarded Irish people - Catholic or Protestant as vermin.

The religious divide that we see continued in NI and echoed in Scotland is the hangover of a cynical political blunt instrument to prevent the rise of a United Irish revolution again after 1798.

It should be noted by all the arseholes on both sides of that idiotic sectarian divide that a significant proportion of the leadershipof the Irish liberation movement were protestant up until the 30s.

[Cormac]

Re the above, I think a federal system would be workable. The Federation Of The Isles, to include Eire...

Good old Huxley! Never give up the Great Game eh?

(Actually, if it were ever to happen, it is a good time. Our national interests in the EU are relatively aligned).

[Cormac]

Scotland as country would never vote the Cuntservatives in .That surely has to be the biggest point in favour !
Hux ,the oil revenue paid for Thatchers tax cuts ! while she killed every other industry north of Watford and turned Britain into a country totally dependant on the London financial 'industry' .

Not sure. We'll see where leftist economic policies take Scotland.

[Svartalf]

If they have the oil and port revenue to back them up? that might just work.

[Audley Strange]

Historically Scotland has given the world much as part of the British empire this Ra Ra Scotland stuff avoids that fact and harps back to a golden age that never existed ....Remind me again when was Scotland last a united independent country ?

Has anyone on this thread endulged in "this Ra Ra Scotland stuff"? It's just a strawman. Political control, from Holyrood not Westminister. Thats it.

Probably me, I'm well known for my insanely patriotic, thistle tinted view of Scotland.

[ronmcd]

To be honest, after only a few days of this thread, if I was scottish, I would have been put off seperation.

It's funny, cos I don't know anyone in Scotland who is campaigning for "separation". Was devolution "separation-lite"? When is US "Separation Day" again, 4th July?

The EU thing looks like being a big unknown, and I can't see a majority voting for such an unknown.

It wil be known by the date of the referendum. At the moment the EU cannot comment as there is nothing to comment on, and they will not aid or harm either side in a political argument. Once the referendum bill has been passed and it is all agreed between UK and Scottish govts, they will be able to comment on a definite premise.

Something being somewhat complicated does not mean we should just give up.

Scotland couldn't possibly adopt the Euro straight away, so the pound is it's only option.
The UK would have no problem staying in the EU. It's already in as a national entity. It would just remain with adjusted borders.

There is some suggestion, from UK politicians in the past and some legal types that the UK will not EXIST if Scotland breaks the union, as GB will not exist. So the question of what happens to Scotland might apply just as well to the rest of UK. Which is one reason it wont be a problem and the EU will be happy to agree to what the UK/Scotland wants to do. I suspect the most likely part to not join EU will be a Tory led UK govt, not Scotland ...

The whole thing has become a complicated nightmare, within the first few days. What it will be like nearer the vote, I can't imagine. Who would vote for such a giant uncertainty? And I can't see Salmond getting any commitments out of the EU. If he's sure of getting straight in, how come he hasn't declared it?

As I say, they have said publicly that they will not give an opinion, they want UK/Scotland to sort out the process and come up with a proposal. They cant comment on a proposal that doesnt exist, and dont want to get involved yet.

If they want it to be seamless, they will need a timescale of five to ten years. And a lot of luck.

Not sure why that would be. Both parts of a split UK are already in EU.

[Audley Strange]

If they have the oil and port revenue to back them up? that might just work.

If we gassed the neds we could probably exist on the back of taxes during T in the Park and The Edinburgh festival.

[Svartalf]

If they have the oil and port revenue to back them up? that might just work.

If we gassed the neds we could probably exist on the back of taxes during T in the Park and The Edinburgh festival.

and in Foreigner friendly language that means?

[ronmcd]

If they have the oil and port revenue to back them up? that might just work.

If we gassed the neds we could probably exist on the back of taxes during T in the Park and The Edinburgh festival.

We'd drown in excess Buckfast.

[Red Celt]

and in Foreigner friendly language that means?

"Wha's like us? Damn few and they're a' deid"

Why don't we have a Scottish smiley?

[Pappa]

They want to stay with the Bank of England at the moment. Cake and eat it etc..

The Republic of Ireland used to do much the same before they switched to the Euro.