An independent Scotland?

[ronmcd]

John, You may have some valid reasons but I don't think many who vote will be as informed. They will vote because.... 'Fuck the English !'

If that were the case, those idiots would have voted for SNP repeatedly over the years. The nutters did - and they are a small small percentage, like racists in English politics. The reason the SNP won in 2011 was because Labour and Libdem voters moved to them, because they were a competent government. Those voters are intelligent, and NOT nationalists. People didnt vote for SNP for independence, the polls suggest SNP havent persuaded many to vote for independence as yet.

If however people are convinced to vote for independence, it WILL be those ordinary voters, intelligent non-nationalists who will be needed to swing the polls. They will absolutely NOT be voting cos they "hate the english" as people claim. Many of them will be English, and lots of SNP supporters already are English. If the polls change, it will be because people want political control, and the YES campaign (incl SNP, Greens, Scottish Socialists, Labour libdems and even Conservative voters who support indy) have convinced them Scotland will be better off in some way.

[Feck]

If Scotland is a microcosm of the UK where is our massively profitable financial centre like London ? Will Scotland have a revenue stream like The City ?

[JimC]

I thought Scotland already had control of much of the internal machinery of everyday life?

[ronmcd]

Does religion enter into this argument ? I've not heard mention of it by anyone I know opposing Independence . I have heard almost constant dumb ass claims of 'We got the oil, fuck England !' etc .
I would like to see actual real calculated figures of how the division of money will work out , I'd love to see Scotland rise and be productive and profitable BUT I do not trust the SNP .Still After independence they would be no SNP surely

The only religious aspect I see is in the ned element of the Rangers fc support and their default position of unionism, whether in Northern Ireland or now Scotland. They have no idea why they must agree with maintaining the union, other than they are "unionists" with regard to NI. Idiots. But other than that, theres no link between the yes or no camps and any religion, and ALL the religions are currently attacking SNP because of the equal marriage proposals, even though all the parties agree lol.

[ronmcd]

If Scotland is a microcosm of the UK where is our massively profitable financial centre like London ? Will Scotland have a revenue stream like The City ?

Edinburgh?

[Thinking Aloud]

Does anyone know how one's nationality will be affected by independence? Just now, my passport says "United Kingdom" on it, and I consider myself "British". What do I become after the split, and what do the kids become? Will I be able to move back to the place I was born without becoming an immigrant from another part of Europe? Would they be able to move to the place I was born without emigrating from their country of birth?

Should I invest in some flags to wave?

[ronmcd]

I thought Scotland already had control of much of the internal machinery of everyday life?

Complete control of devolved areas, sure, health education law. But only control over spending in some areas, none in others. Welfare, defence spending, only very limited access to taxation and revenue raising, and no borrowing powers (altho this is currently changing to some extent). The real point is Scotland can't change economic policy, defence, fiscal policy, and have full control to be able to affect the economy. Basically there is a block grant, and the parliament decides how to spend it. Raising that money, or more importantly the levers to GROW revenue, those arent substantially devolved.

The reserved areas substantial, from wiki:




List of reserved matters

Reserved matters are subdivided into two categories: General reservations and specific reservations.

General reservations cover major issues which are always handled centrally by a nation-state:[5]

the constitution, including:

the Crown
the Union with England, Northern Ireland and Wales
the UK Parliament
the existence of the (criminal) High Court of Justiciary
the existence of the (civil) Court of Session

registration and funding of political parties

international relations, including:

international development
the regulation of international trade

the Home Civil Service
defence
treason

Specific reservations cover particular areas of social and economic policy which are reserved to Westminster, listed under 11 'heads':[6]

Head A - Financial and Economic Matters

fiscal, economic and monetary policy
currency
financial services
financial markets
money laundering

Head B - Home Affairs

drug abuse
data protection and access to information
elections
firearms
film classification
immigration and nationality
scientific procedures on live animals
national security and counter-terrorism
betting, gaming and lotteries
emergency powers
extradition
lieutenancies

Head C – Trade and Industry

business associations
insolvency
competition
intellectual property
import and export control
sea fishing outside the Scottish zone
customer protection
product standards, safety and liability
weights and measures
telecommunications
postal services
research councils

Head D – Energy

electricity
oil and gas
coal
nuclear energy
energy efficiency

Head E - Transport

road transport
rail transport
marine transport
air transport

Head F – Social Security

social security schemes
child support
pensions

Head G – Regulation of the Professions

architect
health professions
auditor

Head H – Employment

employment and industrial relations
health and safety

Head J – Health and Medicines

abortion
xenotransplantation
embryology, surrogacy and human genetics
medicines, medical supplies and poisons
welfare foods

Head K – Media and Culture

broadcasting
public lending right

Head L – Miscellaneous

judicial salaries
equal opportunities
control of weapons of mass destruction
Ordnance Survey
time
outer space

[ronmcd]

Does anyone know how one's nationality will be affected by independence? Just now, my passport says "United Kingdom" on it, and I consider myself "British". What do I become after the split, and what do the kids become? Will I be able to move back to the place I was born without becoming an immigrant from another part of Europe? Would they be able to move to the place I was born without emigrating from their country of birth?

Should I invest in some flags to wave?

Dont know yet. I suspect people will be free to choose, perhaps even dual nationality. There won't be any wish to restrict access, Scotland needs more people not less. So I would expect if you stay as a UK citizen, you will be able to ALSO be a Scottish citizen with dual nationality, living here or not. Isnt that what happened with Ireland?

[Feck]

@ TA: I'd actually quite like a Scottish passport .

[Thinking Aloud]

Does anyone know how one's nationality will be affected by independence? Just now, my passport says "United Kingdom" on it, and I consider myself "British". What do I become after the split, and what do the kids become? Will I be able to move back to the place I was born without becoming an immigrant from another part of Europe? Would they be able to move to the place I was born without emigrating from their country of birth?

Should I invest in some flags to wave?

Dont know yet. I suspect people will be free to choose, perhaps even dual nationality. There won't be any wish to restrict access, Scotland needs more people not less. So I would expect if you stay as a UK citizen, you will be able to ALSO be a Scottish citizen with dual nationality, living here or not. Isnt that what happened with Ireland?

I guess the details will have to wait. I just hope the details come before we're asked to vote: "don't worry, it'll all work out" isn't particularly convincing!

[klr]

Does anyone know how one's nationality will be affected by independence? Just now, my passport says "United Kingdom" on it, and I consider myself "British". What do I become after the split, and what do the kids become? Will I be able to move back to the place I was born without becoming an immigrant from another part of Europe? Would they be able to move to the place I was born without emigrating from their country of birth?

Should I invest in some flags to wave?

If Scotland were to join the EU with no appreciable delay, I wouldn't see much of an issue here. If ...

...
I guess the details will have to wait. I just hope the details come before we're asked to vote: "don't worry, it'll all work out" isn't particularly convincing!

Yet it seems to work with voters the world over quite well ...

[Audley Strange]

Does religion enter into this argument ? I've not heard mention of it by anyone I know opposing Independence . I have heard almost constant dumb ass claims of 'We got the oil, fuck England !' etc .
I would like to see actual real calculated figures of how the division of money will work out , I'd love to see Scotland rise and be productive and profitable BUT I do not trust the SNP .Still After independence they would be no SNP surely

There are quite a few dumb unionists (not dumb because they are unionists, dumb first) who thinks it makes them be a better proddy or something. They're so low rent that we shouldn't waste our time considering them. but there are quite a lot of them, even in high places.

I don't trust the SNP either and you are correct that such a vote would make the need for them redundant. So in short a vote for independence allows us to succeed or fail on our own without being in a relationship of mutual contempt, it gets rid of Salmond's party and condemns England to eternally indentured conservitude.

If you like that sort of thing. Personally I think every nation should have the right to choose self-determination. If we fail, and we most likely will fail, then we deserve to. This country needs a rude awakening.

[Clinton Huxley]

The SNP are hoping to walk away with all he oil and none of the national debt. It's fairy tale politics. And Salmond is a cunt.

Well, everyone is a cunt, you and me included I'm sure. On the politics, no, the SNP are intending following international law. That means the resources of Scotland become Scotland's after independence, just as Scotland wouldnt be expecting any revenue from English Welsh or NI resources in the future. Approx 80 - 90% of the oil fields are in Scottish waters, but most of the gas is in English waters, and thats how it would be split.

National debt, racked up historically, would be split on a GDP or population basis. Again I think thats internationally accepted, the SNP absolutely accept it.

100% of the oil and gas is in UK waters.

[Thinking Aloud]

...
I guess the details will have to wait. I just hope the details come before we're asked to vote: "don't worry, it'll all work out" isn't particularly convincing!

Yet it seems to work with voters the world over quite well ...

That's what I'm worried about.

[ronmcd]

Does anyone know how one's nationality will be affected by independence? Just now, my passport says "United Kingdom" on it, and I consider myself "British". What do I become after the split, and what do the kids become? Will I be able to move back to the place I was born without becoming an immigrant from another part of Europe? Would they be able to move to the place I was born without emigrating from their country of birth?

Should I invest in some flags to wave?

Dont know yet. I suspect people will be free to choose, perhaps even dual nationality. There won't be any wish to restrict access, Scotland needs more people not less. So I would expect if you stay as a UK citizen, you will be able to ALSO be a Scottish citizen with dual nationality, living here or not. Isnt that what happened with Ireland?

I guess the details will have to wait. I just hope the details come before we're asked to vote: "don't worry, it'll all work out" isn't particularly convincing!

Sure, all the details would need to be explained. Not in terms of policy necessarily, as we dont know which party/parties would be elected to run an independent Scotland, but in terms of the plans for the constitutional aspects. The referendum bill will go before the Scottish Parliament and then there will be a white paper setting out the details. Citizenship will have to be in there of course.