What would you fight and potentially die for?

[mistermack]

As far as the original question goes, I can't think of anything I'd die for.

But, I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

[Blind groper]

I think the initial question is short.
It should be : "What would you fight and kill other people, and potentially die for?"

I think that human life is pretty much the most important thing that exists. There is no deity. There is no after-life. We have our time here, and then we die. To kill another human, and deprive them of their one and only chance at existence, is a terrible thing.

[Ian]

Okay... so what if the Nazis are staging an invasion of your country?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay... so what if the Nazis are staging an invasion of your country?

Reminds me of the time this guy said he was a pacifist and nothing would ever change that. Thirty seconds later he was ready to fight me.

[Blind groper]

I said I was mostly pacifist. I am not 100% pacifist, and I recognise there are times you have no choice. The American campaign against Japan in WWII was a case in point. After Pearl Harbour, the USA was committed.

Someone invading my country? It would not have to be nazis. If it was the USA, with Gawdzilla leading the charge, I would have him in my gun sights. However, it would take a hell of a lot of provocation to get me to fight and kill other people. Anything less than a full scale invasion would not do it.

[Ian]

Spoken like one who has the luxury of living in an isolated, idyllic little corner of the world that nobody ever thinks about or expects anything from.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If it was the USA, with Gawdzilla leading the charge, I would have him in my gun sights.

You don't like guns.

[Azathoth]

Okay... so what if the Nazis are staging an invasion of your country?

Meh, thay can have it. They might do something about the chav infestation

[Blind groper]

You don't like guns.

If you recall, Gawdzilla, my opposition was not to guns in general, but specifically to hand guns, which cause the great majority of both murders and suicides in your country. In time of war, only an idiot would rely on a hand gun, anyway.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You don't like guns.

If you recall, Gawdzilla, my opposition was not to guns in general, but specifically to hand guns, which cause the great majority of both murders and suicides in your country. In time of war, only an idiot would rely on a hand gun, anyway.

I'm betting that you'd never get me in your cross-hairs.

[JimC]

Spoken like one who has the luxury of living in an isolated, idyllic little corner of the world that nobody ever thinks about or expects anything from.

You forget about Australia's secret plans to...





Oops! Forget I said anything; they're good mates, really...

[mistermack]

I think the initial question is short.
It should be : "What would you fight and kill other people, and potentially die for?"

I think that human life is pretty much the most important thing that exists. There is no deity. There is no after-life. We have our time here, and then we die. To kill another human, and deprive them of their one and only chance at existence, is a terrible thing.

Terrible for who?
Terrible for them, and their family, and that's about it. What keeps me from killing people, is the law.
Otherwise, there are plenty of people that I would bump off.
But in a war it's legal ennit? Although I would be more inclined to kill the people who put me there, than the "enemy".
It's a sad fact that even in a war, you're probably killing other people who don't want to be there either, or completely innocent civilians.
The people who SHOULD get killed, like Hirohito, get protection.

I would love to know how many officers got killed by "friendly fire" in the wars.
It must be an awful temptation, when nobody's looking.
Maybe that's why they stay so far behind the fighting.

[Seth]

You don't like guns.

If you recall, Gawdzilla, my opposition was not to guns in general, but specifically to hand guns, which cause the great majority of both murders and suicides in your country. In time of war, only an idiot would rely on a hand gun, anyway.

Where did the "in war" part come from, your ass? By the way, in war, a handgun can be either a primary or secondary weapon, depending on the mission.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Last person I shot was with a 9MM Ruger.

[Blind groper]

Where did the "in war" part come from, your ass? By the way, in war, a handgun can be either a primary or secondary weapon, depending on the mission.

As an 'almost' pacifist, I am unlikely to ever be involved in war or have direct experience. That does not matter, though, since I am a voracious reader and have partaken of the experience of others. Also, my father was a WWII veteran and told me of his experiences. He was scathing about hand guns, since the desert war he fought in required accuracy over distances that makes a hand gun look sick. In fact, the only value of a hand gun was that it permitted officers to shoot their own soldiers.

Today, the situation is even more pronounced, with automatic heavy calibre weapons. An army of soldiers with hand guns would just be targets.

I can also say that having experience in war does not always lead to correct views. When I mentioned the careful research that led to the understanding that most soldiers without special training will either not shoot at the enemy or shoot over their heads, Gawdzilla, the veteran, refused to believe it. Which shows that experience does not always bring understanding. When he and his soldier trainee friends went through the special training designed to overcome that reluctance, it appears that Gawdzilla did not even realise what that training was for.

Here is a description of the phenomenon and the US military response to it, changing training methods to produce killers.
http://www.radscihealth.org/rsh/Docs/9411a4Cameron.htm
It is no wonder that returned soldiers have a very high rate of PTSD, and so many turn out to be murderers in civilian life.
http://costsofwar.org/article/us-vetera ... y-families

I quote :

" the burdens of these wars that have fallen on veterans and their families include higher rates of suicide and mental illness, increased drug and alcohol dependence, higher rates of violence including homicide and child abuse and neglect "

Obviously, this is not a simple situation, and the reasons for PTSD and for increased violent behaviour amongst returned veterans are probably many and varied. However, being trained in such a way as to turn normal non violent people into what is essentially psychopathic killers, is not going to make good citizens.