2012 Vice Presidential Debate - October 11 - Biden v. Ryan

[Kristie]

Isn't there a sex-related thread we could move to? That might be more relavnt to our intrestz, anyway.

You lead, I'll follow.

[Warren Dew]

How would you feel about Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders on Obama's ticket?

Kucinich is a good parallel - while his views are towards the end of the spectrum, he at least has integrity, like Ryan - and unlike anyone in the Obama administration.

[Wumbologist]

How would you feel about Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders on Obama's ticket?

Kucinich is a good parallel - while his views are towards the end of the spectrum, he at least has integrity, like Ryan - and unlike anyone in the Obama administration.

[Kristie]

How would you feel about Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders on Obama's ticket?

Kucinich is a good parallel - while his views are towards the end of the spectrum, he at least has integrity, like Ryan - and unlike anyone in the Obama administration.

Ryan, integrity?

[Wumbologist]

Integrity is not:

• Expounding upon the evils of the stimulus package, except when you can use it to your own advantage in your state because it will create jobs.
• Being incapable of understanding how one can separate their politics from their religion, a core tenet of the Constitution an elected official is sworn to uphold.
• Using a lie so thoroughly debunked as death panels and actually expecting to get away with it.
• Monday morning quarterbacking the current administration's foreign policy decisions while admitting you won't handle it differently from them if elected.
• Playing a personal role in voting in the biggest debt increases in the last decade, and then blaming the other guys because the debt is astronomical.

[Kristie]

Integrity is not:

• Expounding upon the evils of the stimulus package, except when you can use it to your own advantage in your state because it will create jobs.
• Being incapable of understanding how one can separate their politics from their religion, a core tenet of the Constitution an elected official is sworn to uphold.
• Using a lie so thoroughly debunked as death panels and actually expecting to get away with it.
• Monday morning quarterbacking the current administration's foreign policy decisions while admitting you won't handle it differently from them if elected.
• Playing a personal role in voting in the biggest debt increases in the last decade, and then blaming the other guys because the debt is astronomical.

Nicely put

[amused]

I don't think it matters much who the candidates are once they've reached the national stage. What matters is the party platform and what they say they stand for. Read the Republican party platform for Texas for example, and you will see pro-religion, anti-science, anti-woman, anti-choice, anti-privacy, and more fear-based lunacy. By supporting and including that in their party, the national Republican party is pandering to the worst of human nature on social issues. Not a group I want in charge.

[Gerald McGrew]

Biden did exactly what he had to do last night....plus a little more.

He came out aggressive and attacking, a clear contrast to Obama's performance last week.

He refused to allow the Romney/Ryan bullshit to stand unopposed.

He frequently pointed out Ryan's hypocrisy (voted to cut embassy security, asked for stimulus funds).

He hammered Ryan on the emptiness of their economic "plan" (I hesitate to call a vague outline of philosophies a plan).

He pressed Ryan on how they were criticizing the administration on Syria and Iran, yet not saying what they would do differently.

He exposed Ryan for the extreme right-wing culture warrior he is (abortion).

In all, he gave a very good demonstration on how to debate a serial liar. Now, if Obama can do something similar to Romney, without laughing at him, that would be great. More detailed post-debate polling has shown that the biggest reason for Romney's gains after the first debate came from increased enthusiasm in the Republican base, and deflation among Democrats. More than likely Biden helped correct that and got the base more excited. If Obama can follow up on Joe's performance with a good one of his own, some of the polls may start to go back to where they were at the end of last month.

[laklak]

Looks like a dead heat on the CNN poll, slight edge for Ryan at 48% to 44%. It's not going to change anyone's mind.

[Coito ergo sum]

How would you feel about Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders on Obama's ticket?

Kucinich is a good parallel - while his views are towards the end of the spectrum, he at least has integrity, like Ryan - and unlike anyone in the Obama administration.

Ryan, integrity?

What makes you think he doesn't have integrity?

[Tero]

OK, I saw some more of it. In the OLD FART category, Biden comes ahead of McCain and the previous old fart that ran against Clinton.

[Ian]

How would you feel about Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders on Obama's ticket?

Kucinich is a good parallel - while his views are towards the end of the spectrum, he at least has integrity, like Ryan - and unlike anyone in the Obama administration.

Ryan, integrity?

What makes you think he doesn't have integrity?

How about the Politifact.com test? He's only been the VP candidate for a few months, and his numbers based on rated statements are as follows:
True/Mostly true: 27%
Half-true: 24%
Mostly false/False/Pants-on-Fire: 48%

(Assuming you're interested in a contrast, Obama's numbers are:
True/Mostly true: 45%
Half-true: 26%
Mostly false/False/Pants-on-Fire: 28%)

Seeking integrity in a career politician is like looking for water in the Sahara. But some are better than others.

[Coito ergo sum]

oops -- adding wrong numbers...sorry

Well your numbers from politifact are accurate, although, I can't figure out why Ryan has so many fewer statements analyzed than Biden or Obama.

[Ian]

LOL indeed. But just to keep going, Romney isn't much better than Ryan:

True/mostly true: 28%
Half true: 28%
Mostly false/false/Pants-on-Fire: 43%

EDIT: Take heart though - neither of them are anywhere near Michelle Bachmann's numbers:
True/Mostly true: 16%
Half-true: 11%
Mostly false/false/Pants-on-Fire: 72%
(Pants-on-Fire alone was 22%!)

[Ian]

oops -- adding wrong numbers...sorry

Well your numbers from politifact are accurate, although, I can't figure out why Ryan has so many fewer statements analyzed than Biden or Obama.

They've been analyzing Obama and Biden statements for four-plus years. Romney's got a lot more too.