2012 Vice Presidential Debate - October 11 - Biden v. Ryan

[Kristie]

I gave the nod to Biden last night, but some polls are more even about it: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -biden-44/ CNN's poll actually gave Ryan the victory, which shocked me a bit.

In my view, Biden did a good job of making Ryan look like the inexperienced kid trying to talk to the adult about issues....

CBS News says undecided gave the win to Biden!
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-575 ... oters-say/

[Coito ergo sum]

Biden is taking some criticisms for laughing too much throughout the debate.

Hey, constant laughing and interrupting is an excellent debate tactic when all the facts are on the other guy's side.

Still can't own up to the concept of Ryan being a pathological liar? Well, if his speech at the RNC didn't convince you and last night didn't either, why even watch these things? You're not going to be swayed by facts.

The fact check about the RNC speech was debunked. Ryan did not lie -- what they do is recast what he said into what they think he "really means" and then declare that what he really means is a lie. And, on many issues, it's a matter of opinion, or based on disputed facts, which again, would not be lies.

Now, how do you get around the sheer, unmitigated gall of Biden regarding Benghazi last night?

[Coito ergo sum]

I gave the nod to Biden last night, but some polls are more even about it: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -biden-44/ CNN's poll actually gave Ryan the victory, which shocked me a bit.

In my view, Biden did a good job of making Ryan look like the inexperienced kid trying to talk to the adult about issues....

CBS News says undecided gave the win to Biden!
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-575 ... oters-say/

Yup, but even with Biden's (if you listen to Obama-Biden supporters) total destruction of Ryan last night, it still only shows 50% of undecided voters saying Biden won the debate. The other 50% went with tie or Ryan. So, it isn't really a monumental victory, and it took Biden to surprise people by going all out in a "what got into Joe?!?!?" sort of fashion. Smirking -- sarcasm -- rudeness -- he interrupted Ryan 82 times, talked over him, and made funny faces, all attempts to distract and belittle Ryan.

[Coito ergo sum]

HuffPo says "mixed results." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/1 ... tions-2012 - they discuss the CNN and CBS results.

Here is the Daily Caller's take: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/12/ryan- ... d-pundits/

[Tyrannical]

Biden is starting to get a lot of flack for his behavior, with some predicting that is a big turn off to the undecided voters.
Though the text of Biden's speech was also praised as being solid by these same critics. Biden is the better debater, but Ryan did a competent job himself and behaved himself professionally. Laughing and heckling aren't appropriate behaviors in a debate, and the negatives related to this could eat into votes.

[Ian]

Biden is taking some criticisms for laughing too much throughout the debate.

Hey, constant laughing and interrupting is an excellent debate tactic when all the facts are on the other guy's side.

Still can't own up to the concept of Ryan being a pathological liar? Well, if his speech at the RNC didn't convince you and last night didn't either, why even watch these things? You're not going to be swayed by facts.

The fact check about the RNC speech was debunked. Ryan did not lie -- what they do is recast what he said into what they think he "really means" and then declare that what he really means is a lie. And, on many issues, it's a matter of opinion, or based on disputed facts, which again, would not be lies.

Now, how do you get around the sheer, unmitigated gall of Biden regarding Benghazi last night?

Are you kidding me about the RNC speech?! Ryan's a liar, plain and simple. I don't use terms like "precarious relationship with facts" or "context-bending" or whatever else the entire media (fact-checkers above all) used for him. He's a liar. Not even going to discuss it further.

I think the Romney campaign has a lot of nerve even talking about Libya. For one thing, Romney himself took eight different opinions on what US involvement should be over the course of the Libyan upheaval last year. As for what happened last month, let's point out that Republicans have voted to cut funding to State Dept. security three times since the midterms. But I don't blame them, any more than I'd throw all the blame at the Obama administration (which Republicans just drool at the chance of doing). I don't see a cover-up at all, just an initial misunderstanding of what happened. There was a large protest in Egypt, and soon reports of another protest in Benghazi which soon involved violence. Are you contending that the administration knew all the details and tried to cover it up right at the start, knowing full-well that the truth would surely come out within a matter of days or weeks? That's a piss-poor conspiracy if ever I heard one. It's more likely that the details were not fully obvious, and the simpler explanation of an opportunistic attack coming in the midst of a protest seemed correct. And then Romney jumps right on to the opportunism wagon, giving a little press conference while the bodies were still warm, after which he was photographed smirking while walking away from the podium. Then the other day he's at a campaign stop talking about how it turns out he had met one of the SEALs who died a few months back, and isn't it how tragic his government let him down - until the SEAL's mother came out and told the public how disgusting it was that he was politicizing her son's death for his own gain, then Romney dropped that charming little talking point.

So what do I think of Biden's unmitigated gall in discussing Libya? I think that Ryan can go fuck himself and then fuck himself some more, miserable rat-boy that he is, that's what I think.

[Kristie]

Biden is taking some criticisms for laughing too much throughout the debate.

Hey, constant laughing and interrupting is an excellent debate tactic when all the facts are on the other guy's side.

Still can't own up to the concept of Ryan being a pathological liar? Well, if his speech at the RNC didn't convince you and last night didn't either, why even watch these things? You're not going to be swayed by facts.

The fact check about the RNC speech was debunked. Ryan did not lie -- what they do is recast what he said into what they think he "really means" and then declare that what he really means is a lie. And, on many issues, it's a matter of opinion, or based on disputed facts, which again, would not be lies.

Now, how do you get around the sheer, unmitigated gall of Biden regarding Benghazi last night?

Are you kidding me about the RNC speech?! Ryan's a liar, plain and simple. I don't use terms like "precarious relationship with facts" or "context-bending" or whatever else the entire media (fact-checkers above all) used for him. He's a liar. Not even going to discuss it further.

I think the Romney campaign has a lot of nerve even talking about Libya. For one thing, Romney himself took eight different opinions on what US involvement should be over the course of the Libyan upheaval last year. As for what happened last month, let's point out that Republicans have voted to cut funding to State Dept. security three times since the midterms. But I don't blame them, any more than I'd throw all the blame at the Obama administration (which Republicans just drool at the chance of doing). I don't see a cover-up at all, just an initial misunderstanding of what happened. There was a large protest in Egypt, and soon reports of another protest in Benghazi which soon involved violence. Are you contending that the administration knew all the details and tried to cover it up right at the start, knowing full-well that the truth would surely come out within a matter of days or weeks? That's a piss-poor conspiracy if ever I heard one. It's more likely that the details were not fully obvious, and the simpler explanation of an opportunistic attack coming in the midst of a protest seemed correct. And then Romney jumps right on to the opportunism wagon, giving a little press conference while the bodies were still warm, after which he was photographed smirking while walking away from the podium. Then the other day he's at a campaign stop talking about how it turns out he had met one of the SEALs who died a few months back, and isn't it how tragic his government let him down - until the SEAL's mother came out and told the public how disgusting it was that he was politicizing her son's death for his own gain, then Romney dropped that charming little talking point.

So what do I think of Biden's unmitigated gall in discussing Libya? I think that Ryan can go fuck himself and then fuck himself some more, miserable rat-boy that he is, that's what I think.

[Coito ergo sum]

Biden is taking some criticisms for laughing too much throughout the debate.

Hey, constant laughing and interrupting is an excellent debate tactic when all the facts are on the other guy's side.

Still can't own up to the concept of Ryan being a pathological liar? Well, if his speech at the RNC didn't convince you and last night didn't either, why even watch these things? You're not going to be swayed by facts.

The fact check about the RNC speech was debunked. Ryan did not lie -- what they do is recast what he said into what they think he "really means" and then declare that what he really means is a lie. And, on many issues, it's a matter of opinion, or based on disputed facts, which again, would not be lies.

Now, how do you get around the sheer, unmitigated gall of Biden regarding Benghazi last night?

Are you kidding me about the RNC speech?! Ryan's a liar, plain and simple. I don't use terms like "precarious relationship with facts" or "context-bending" or whatever else the entire media (fact-checkers above all) used for him. He's a liar. Not even going to discuss it further.

You want to argue it? Be specific. Quote him. The speech is online. Don't say reinterpret what he said -- quote him.

I think the Romney campaign has a lot of nerve even talking about Libya.

Fuck that. The Obama campaign has a lot of nerve with the bullshit they tried to sell after the 9/11/12 attack. They made it up.

For one thing, Romney himself took eight different opinions on what US involvement should be over the course of the Libyan upheaval last year. As for what happened last month, let's point out that Republicans have voted to cut funding to State Dept. security three times since the midterms. But I don't blame them, any more than I'd throw all the blame at the Obama administration (which Republicans just drool at the chance of doing).

Oh, and the Democrats don't drool at the chance of dumping the blame on Republicans? Cut me a break. They both drool over that. Stop it with the nonsense you try to sell about the Democrats having some higher ethical approach to politics. It's embarrassingly naive.

I don't see a cover-up at all, just an initial misunderstanding of what happened.

Look - Biden SAID that the Administration was told that it was the video. They weren't. Period.

There was a large protest in Egypt, and soon reports of another protest in Benghazi which soon involved violence.

There was no protest in Benghazi before the attack. Period. There just was not.

Are you contending that the administration knew all the details and tried to cover it up right at the start, knowing full-well that the truth would surely come out within a matter of days or weeks?

Focus. I'm saying what Biden said in the debate was not true. The White House was not misinformed by the intelligence community about the cause of the debate. I didn't say anything at all about whether they knew the truth would come out.

That's a piss-poor conspiracy if ever I heard one.

Well, I didn't make that argument, so whatever.

It's more likely that the details were not fully obvious,

On what basis is it more likely? Do you have one? Did Biden or tell the truth or not when he said that he and Obama were told that it was the video that sparked the Benghazi attack?

and the simpler explanation of an opportunistic attack coming in the midst of a protest seemed correct.

There was no protest before the Benghazi attack. http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-hab ... 37978.html

So what do I think of Biden's unmitigated gall in discussing Libya? I think that Ryan can go fuck himself and then fuck himself some more, miserable rat-boy that he is, that's what I think.

Focus. I didn't say it was unmitigated gall in "discussing" Libya. He stated something that was not true. What he said was false. Whether you think other issues mitigate against that is a different issue.

And, as for opinions of the candidates, your emotional outburst is typical. Ryan's a liar in the typical democrat's view not because what he said was actually false, but because he's a "rat boy" and we all know what that rat boy meant.

[Ian]

You asked me for my opinion and I gave it.

[Kristie]

I think Rachel Maddow says it best, "Perhaps the clearest indication of who won and lost came quickly on the heels of the event itself: the Democratic post-debate message was that Joe Biden scored a clear win; the Republican message was that Joe Biden was too mean to Paul Ryan. The former is a boast of success; the latter is an excuse for failure."

[Coito ergo sum]

You asked me for my opinion and I gave it.

Actually, the only thing I asked you was how you get around the unmitigated call of Biden regarding Benghazi last night. if your opinion is Ryan is" sucky-mcdoodopants, so nyeeeah!," then your opinion came through loud and clear.

[Kristie]

You asked me for my opinion and I gave it.

Actually, the only thing I asked you was how you get around the unmitigated call of Biden regarding Benghazi last night. if your opinion is Ryan is" sucky-mcdoodopants, so nyeeeah!," then your opinion came through loud and clear.

Ohhh, that's a good name for him!

[Coito ergo sum]

I think Rachel Maddow says it best, "Perhaps the clearest indication of who won and lost came quickly on the heels of the event itself: the Democratic post-debate message was that Joe Biden scored a clear win; the Republican message was that Joe Biden was too mean to Paul Ryan. The former is a boast of success; the latter is an excuse for failure."

Citation please. Where did the GOP say Biden was too mean to Ryan, or words to that effect?

I know many pundits questioned Biden's tactic of interrupting Ryan 82 times and smirking, smugly and commenting under his breath at ever turn. But, that's because that kind of obnoxious behavior would be an issue no matter who did it.

[Coito ergo sum]

You asked me for my opinion and I gave it.

Actually, the only thing I asked you was how you get around the unmitigated call of Biden regarding Benghazi last night. if your opinion is Ryan is" sucky-mcdoodopants, so nyeeeah!," then your opinion came through loud and clear.

Ohhh, that's a good name for him!

You know, you're beautiful when you're politically off base.

[Animavore]

Who are these people? I don't know them.