2012 US Presidential Debate 1 - October 3, 2012

[Warren Dew]

Obama took office in '48?

Read the red line. The other lines are previous recessions.

Down to 7.8% from 8.1 at present.

Due to people dropping entirely out of the labor market, yes.

[Warren Dew]

I think there may be a deeper parallel here. Bush in 1992 campaigned like he wanted to lose. It really seemed like he was tired of the presidency, and maybe he realized deep down that he wasn't doing a very good job and didn't really want to continue to do that.

Obama's handlers have kept his campaign sufficiently detached from reality to avoid campaigning to lose, but now it looks like that perhaps involved keeping Obama himself out of the loop. After all, they don't care whether he does a good job for the country, as long as he stays in power and they benefit from it. Obama himself, though, might feel like Bush did: he does care about Americans, and it looks from the debate like he realizes deep down that he's letting America down.

This is bullshit. Congress let America down.

The fact that US reacted to Obamacare etc in 2010 should not have been a surprise.

With a cooperative congress we could have European Socialism, Swiss flavor, tomorrow.

Good point. If we'd done that instead of Obamacare, we could have Greek style 20% unemployment now!

[Warren Dew]

I do. 114,000 jobs created in September, and a revision up, for some reason, of 86,000 jobs from previous months, totally 200,000 jobs created. However, the labor force participation rate, from what I read, increased (which raises the unemployment rate because more people are looking for work and are in the job market). So, just based on that, it seems odd that the unemployment rate would drop from 8.1% to 7.8% given the total number of workers involved.

The numbers come from two different surveys. For what it's worth, the job creation survey is considered more accurate.

[Warren Dew]

[Coito ergo sum]

I do. 114,000 jobs created in September, and a revision up, for some reason, of 86,000 jobs from previous months, totally 200,000 jobs created. However, the labor force participation rate, from what I read, increased (which raises the unemployment rate because more people are looking for work and are in the job market). So, just based on that, it seems odd that the unemployment rate would drop from 8.1% to 7.8% given the total number of workers involved.

The numbers come from two different surveys. For what it's worth, the job creation survey is considered more accurate.

I think the U6 number is still at 10% isn't it?

And, what would the number be if we were at the same number of workers in the work force as in January, 2009?

[mistermack]

BISHOP Mit Romney apparently once excommunicated someone on their own doorstep, for leaving the church.

Firstly, how dumb and spiteful does that make him, as the person had already left.
Secondly, it knocks a hole in the carefully built image of someone who wouldn't involve his religion with the presidency.

And thirdly, BISHOP? Fuck me, they kept that quiet.
I think there is a lot more that's been kept quiet about Romney. Including where his money has come from.

I think it's highly likely that he's been groomed for years as a first Mormon President, including a substantial fortune having been put his way behind the scenes to enable it.

The Mormons aren't doing this for nothing. They will expect, and get, a substantial payoff for their investment in Romney.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think it's highly likely that he's been groomed for years as a first Mormon President, including a substantial fortune having been put his way behind the scenes to enable it.

The Mormons aren't doing this for nothing. They will expect, and get, a substantial payoff for their investment in Romney.

The Mormons are a very small minority religion, and they are very commonly considered by Protestants and Catholics to not really be Christians. They've been called a cult, and were generally viewed with suspicion.

I doubt that there are many outside the Mormon community itself that have any positive desire to see a Mormon be President. I think most folks today are just apathetic about it. He has a god belief, and says he likes Jesus, and that's as far as anyone is going to go with it. Even the Jesus part is probably not required anymore --- Lieberman has showed us that Jewish candidates aren't scrutinized over there religion as much as in the past. It would still be groundbreaking for a Jew to be elected to the Prez or Veep position, but it's not now considered unthinkable, as it would have been a few decades ago.

[Tero]

Missiles be going to Iran, Jan first.

[Warren Dew]

And, what would the number be if we were at the same number of workers in the work force as in January, 2009?

Labor force participation has dropped about 4% since then (2.5 percentage points), so if it were the same today, unemployment would be around 12%.

The collapse of labor force participation to Carter era levels is really the biggest problem with the economy right now.