2012 US Presidential Debate 1 - October 3, 2012

[Gerald McGrew]

Right. Romney didn't use the term "death panels", he just said Obamacare included an unelected board that will get between you and your doctor and decide what sort of care you can have. Totally different!

It's like the people who bitch that the phrase "separation of church and state" isn't in the constitution, even though the concept clearly there.

[Coito ergo sum]

Right. Romney didn't use the term "death panels", he just said Obamacare included an unelected board that will get between you and your doctor and decide what sort of care you can have. Totally different!

Well, you mischaracterized what he said, as usual.

But, it is totally different. And, Obamacare DOES include an unelected board that will decide the kids of care available. After voting for the 2010 health care reform, Pete Stark (DEMOCRAT-Calif.), said that the IPAB sets it up for" unsustainable cuts" that will endanger the health of patients, and that he would "work tirelessly to mitigate the damage" the panel would cause. He also called it a "dangerous provision." http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/po ... peal-clues

It's like the people who bitch that the phrase "separation of church and state" isn't in the constitution, even though the concept clearly there.

Is the IPAB open for discussion, or not?

The people doing that are you guys. Romney mentions the IPAB, and you guys go "there is no death panel in there!!! Lie! Pussycat, Lie!" And, yet there IS a panel, that IS unelected, that WILL approve or reject procedures and such.

We can argue over whether the Republican characterization of them is fair, unfair, or whether the panel is bad, or good or some of both. But, to suggest that every time they're mentioned is dirty pool because some other people called it a "death panel" is just as bogus as calling it a death panel in the first place.

[Gerald McGrew]

I stated, "he just said Obamacare included an unelected board that will get between you and your doctor and decide what sort of care you can have." Here's what Romney said...

"[Obamacare] puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have.”

"[In Massachusetts] We didn’t put in place a board that can tell people what treatments they’re going to receive."

"We don’t need to have a board of 15 people telling us what kind of treatments we should have"

"the right answer is not to have the federal government take over health care and start mandating to the providers across America, telling a patient and a doctor what kind of treatment they can have."

There's a reason why Fox News is now saying "Obama backs death panels at debate". http://nation.foxnews.com/obamacare/201 ... els-debate

So don't tell me I'm misrepresenting what he said, when that's exactly what he said.

Again CES, don't fucking piss on all of us and tell us it's just rain.

[Tyrannical]

What it comes down to is that Obama has been revealed to be just another unqualified Black promoted way, way past his capability through affirmative action. He would have never even made it into Columbia let alone Harvard on his own merit if not for the color of his skin.

[Svartalf]

As per French news, Obama lost.

No if lying gets you disqualified. Then, it would be a clear Obama win.

They are announcing that mitt drove him into the ground with his oratory, that he couldn't repluy effectively, and that polls are bad since.

Truth never came into the picture.

[Coito ergo sum]

I stated, "he just said Obamacare included an unelected board that will get between you and your doctor and decide what sort of care you can have." Here's what Romney said...

"[Obamacare] puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have.”

"[In Massachusetts] We didn’t put in place a board that can tell people what treatments they’re going to receive."

"We don’t need to have a board of 15 people telling us what kind of treatments we should have"

"the right answer is not to have the federal government take over health care and start mandating to the providers across America, telling a patient and a doctor what kind of treatment they can have."

There's a reason why Fox News is now saying "Obama backs death panels at debate". http://nation.foxnews.com/obamacare/201 ... els-debate

So don't tell me I'm misrepresenting what he said, when that's exactly what he said.

Again CES, don't fucking piss on all of us and tell us it's just rain.

Look -- there is a panel. It is called the IPAB, and it will make decisions on what kind of treatments people can get.

Obama said: “It — when Gov. Romney talks about this board, for example, unelected board that we’ve created, what this is, is a group of health care experts, doctors, et cetera, to figure out, how can we reduce the cost of care in the system overall?” Obama said.

“Now, so what this board does is basically identifies best practices and says, let’s use the purchasing power of Medicare and Medicaid to help to institutionalize all these good things that we do."

So the panel is there and it will cut costs by identifying best practices. Obama admitted that much. And the IPAB will determine what treatments will be paid for. If they think a procedure is not cost effective they'll deny it.

So, what is the falsity here?

But, whatever, I'm so sick and tired of having to ignore your fucking bullshit like "piss on me and tell me it's raining" crap, that I'd rather just say "go fuck yourself," and move along. You're on ignore, so fuck off, and take remedial English because you're apparently too stupid to comprehend the English language.

[laklak]

Face it. Your man lost, and lost big. He came over as an arrogant, uninterested, supercilious jerk-off. Romney looked positively Presidential in comparison. Of course his spin doctors are madly trying to hand-wave it away, he was tired, he didn't practice enough, Romney lied, Denver was unfair, it was the moderator, someone cast a voodoo spell on him, and after all it was his anniversary (oh, boo hoo hoo, poor baby couldn't close down half of New York City and cost the taxpayers a few mil so he could have a "date night").

[Gerald McGrew]

Nice CES. You accuse me of misrepresenting Romney but after I post what I claimed he said, and what he said, and show that they're almost identical, you respond with...

"You're stupid and I'm putting you on ignore"

How pathetic.

[Coito ergo sum]

Face it. Your man lost, and lost big. He came over as an arrogant, uninterested, supercilious jerk-off. Romney looked positively Presidential in comparison. Of course his spin doctors are madly trying to hand-wave it away, he was tired, he didn't practice enough, Romney lied, Denver was unfair, it was the moderator, someone cast a voodoo spell on him, and after all it was his anniversary (oh, boo hoo hoo, poor baby couldn't close down half of New York City and cost the taxpayers a few mil so he could have a "date night").

I haven't seen any new polls yet. I'm wondering if anything can move the polls at all. Obama has been Teflon so far. It was amazing when the 9/11/12 Bengazi incident hit, the press rushed to blame it on the dopey video. All information pointed to a planned and forewarned attack. Romney issued a statement critical of the President's non-response, and it became - in the media - Romney's foreign policy debacle. Nobody has even yet asked the President about it. Nothing. He hasn't taken questions from the white house press corp in like 5 months, and the last questions he did take were from People fucking magazine, and the media has been mute. Can you imagine the outcry if GWBush went months at a time without holding a White House press conference?

[Tero]

The debate poll, Romney won, tells me this is a rather trivial view by voters. A pissing contest. Prairie chickens puffing their feathers.

I never could get the Reagan thing either. I could not stand his style, whatever the content of the speech.

And, 12 million jobs? He's not reagan.

[Warren Dew]

What's Obama's "doing fine" gaffe? We don't get that much news over here.

He said "The private sector is doing fine" -- in the most anemic recovery since the great depression.

Gotcha. Thanks.

But it is still a recovery, right? I saw a graph yesterday or so that showed a huge upswing in unemployment just before he took office, which naturally continued to climb after he took office. And now it's down to about the same level as when he took office. Looked to me like he's slowly turning thing around. Caveat: I'm ignorant about all this stuff.

Unemployment rates are distorted by the fact that many people have given up looking for work. This graph is a better representation of what is going on in the U.S. Obama took office at about the middle of the job losses, somewhere around a year into this graph.

[Warren Dew]

I really wish Obama had shot back on the repeated "$716 billion cut" misrepresentation. He really needs to get that one locked down.

Obama shot back as best he could, given that the $716 billion cut to medicare is absolutely a part of the Obamacare bill. Pretending it was "savings" is the best he can do without completely departing from the truth.

Not debatable, Obama Stumbles: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/10 ... ml?hp=t2_3

"Obama seemed like George H.W. Bush in 1992. He didn't want to be there, was unable or unwilling to defend his four years and could not explain why everything he did led to such a poor recovery, high unemployment and at the unbearable cost of $5 trillion in additional debt." - Grover Norquist.

I think there may be a deeper parallel here. Bush in 1992 campaigned like he wanted to lose. It really seemed like he was tired of the presidency, and maybe he realized deep down that he wasn't doing a very good job and didn't really want to continue to do that.

Obama's handlers have kept his campaign sufficiently detached from reality to avoid campaigning to lose, but now it looks like that perhaps involved keeping Obama himself out of the loop. After all, they don't care whether he does a good job for the country, as long as he stays in power and they benefit from it. Obama himself, though, might feel like Bush did: he does care about Americans, and it looks from the debate like he realizes deep down that he's letting America down.

[Tero]

Have you heard: There will be a "MILLION MUPPET MARCH" to protest Mitt Romney's plan to eliminate PBS.

[Coito ergo sum]

Have you heard: There will be a "MILLION MUPPET MARCH" to protest Mitt Romney's plan to eliminate PBS.

Of course, eliminating the 12% of PBS funding that comes directly from the federal coffers would hardly "eliminate" PBS. It's a large company. Don't they deserve a tax increase anyway? Ending a 12% subsidy is hardly much to ask, and it's just part of the way to getting them to pay their fair share.

Just tell them to sell some commercial advertising. I'm sure that if they can raise the 12% by running a few commercials. Obama's green energy companies are doing well, right? Maybe they can advertise.

[FBM]

What's Obama's "doing fine" gaffe? We don't get that much news over here.

He said "The private sector is doing fine" -- in the most anemic recovery since the great depression.

Gotcha. Thanks.

But it is still a recovery, right? I saw a graph yesterday or so that showed a huge upswing in unemployment just before he took office, which naturally continued to climb after he took office. And now it's down to about the same level as when he took office. Looked to me like he's slowly turning thing around. Caveat: I'm ignorant about all this stuff.

Unemployment rates are distorted by the fact that many people have given up looking for work. This graph is a better representation of what is going on in the U.S. Obama took office at about the middle of the job losses, somewhere around a year into this graph.

Obama took office in '48?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19845234

Down to 7.8% from 8.1 at present.