DNC tribute to veterans - Russian veterans

[Ian]

Okay, I didn't know the story about the buttons. Nevertheless, up until now (which is to say, the one time I heard of it a few weeks ago) I assumed there was a kernel of truth, and yet I didn't care. Y'know why? Because it would've hardly counted as a gaffe.

What's the point with this thread, anyway? That the Democratic National Commitee should've double-checked with a military expert the level of detail of one of the video montages being displayed in the background? And if they should have (and I think they should have!), and yet didn't, does that indicate some failure or incompetence of Democratic leadership? Or did Warren just want it to indicate something like that? I found it personally annoying because, being a US Navy veteran as well as someone who can recognize Russian ships, I would've noticed the difference myself if I had been watching. But honestly, I don't see the "so what?" in this whole thing beyond a very superficial "oops".

[Coito ergo sum]

You prove your idea, I'll prove mine.

I would think since you made the initial allegation, that you might prove your first.

Funny that no reporter or journalist thought to ask. Well, actually, it's not funny at all, it's become to be expected that the obvious questions aren't asked, and since the major news outlets didn't think this merited much reporting in the first place, nobody was in a hurry to ask "who was responsible for choosing the image, and who was responsible for approving it for display?"

[Coito ergo sum]

Okay, I didn't know the story about the buttons. Nevertheless, up until now (which is to say, the one time I heard of it a few weeks ago) I assumed there was a kernel of truth, and yet I didn't care. Y'know why? Because it would've hardly counted as a gaffe.

Actually, I think if they are ordering buttons from China, then it would be deserving of healthy criticism.

What's the point with this thread, anyway?

I don't know. I'm sure a thread would have been created about a similar "gaffe" by the Republicans. Pretty much everything they do is flyspecked.

That the Democratic National Commitee should've double-checked with a military expert the level of detail of one of the video montages being displayed in the background?

One would think these presentations would be carefully choreographed and gaffe-checked.

Apparently, the fighter jets shown were part of the Turkish air force.

And if they should have (and I think they should have!), and yet didn't, does that indicate some failure or incompetence of Democratic leadership?

No more, or less, than pointing out that McCain didn't use email was a failure or incompetence, but that didn't stop that from being done in widespread fashion. That's my point. These things ARE posited as indicative of failure and incompetence when done by a Republican.

Or did Warren just want it to indicate something like that? I found it personally annoying because, being a US Navy veteran as well as someone who can recognize Russian ships, I would've noticed the difference myself if I had been watching. But honestly, I don't see the "so what?" in this whole thing beyond a very superficial "oops".

It would not have been as resoundingly ignored in that way, as an oops, by the main news outlets had it been the GOP convention that did it. I think you probably would agree with that. I guarantee NPR, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post and the New York Times, etc. would have major articles and stories about how ironic it is that the pro-military GOP would get it so wrong and not even know what our ships look like, or our planes....

[Ian]

In fact I do not agree with that. It's all just bias. Major articles from all those news outlets, etc? C'mon. It wouldn't be much of a story because a great many people, myself inclued, would not have been interested, hence low ratings for it. There's no scandal; I for one would be well aware that the Romney campaign and the RNC did not personally sit down and review all the details of something like that any more than either the Obama administration or the DNC can be seriously faulted for it.

[Coito ergo sum]

In fact I do not agree with that. It's all just bias. Major articles from all those news outlets, etc? C'mon. It wouldn't be much of a story because a great many people, myself inclued, would not have been interested, hence low ratings for it. There's no scandal; I for one would be well aware that the Romney campaign and the RNC did not personally sit down and review all the details of something like that any more than either the Obama administration or the DNC can be seriously faulted for it.

Well, when I saw that mountain that was made out of the Romney Olympic "gaffe" which actually wasn't a gaffe -- he just pointed out that it had been reported that there were problems with the organization and security of the Olympics, but that he hoped everything would work out -- that was set upon as a MAJOR FOREIGN POLICY GAFFE wherein he supposed insulted the British. Total bullcrap, of course, but that didn't stop the story from running throughout the Olympics. It was as if they were just waiting and looking for anything they could grab. Reading the exact quote, it's impossible to see what is insulting about what he said, but that didn't stop a thread here either.

See: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... s#p1227562

This was his quote that was called a "gaffe" and was blown into a referendum on his fitness as a diplomat:

When asked about the preparations for the Olympics in an interview on Wednesday night with the NBC anchor Brian Williams, Romney said: "There are a few things that were disconcerting, the stories about the private security firm not having enough people, supposed strike of the immigration and customs officials, that obviously is not something which is encouraging. Because there are three parts that makes Games successful.

"Number one, of course, are the athletes. That's what overwhelmingly the Games are about. Number two are the volunteers. And they'll have great volunteers here. But number three are the people of the country. Do they come together and celebrate the Olympic moment? And that's something which we only find out once the Games actually begin."

If you can remember how this played in the press, and then read those reports against what he actually said, and call that in any way insulting or a poor statement to make as a diplomat -- and then look at Obama saying "Egypt is not an ally" of of the US, etc. -- and claim that there is no disparity or unfairness in the reporting of such "gaffes", then I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

Saying to Egypt, who we fund to the tune of billions every year and who Obama just announced wanting to increase payments to, is NOT AN ALLY of the US is far worse than saying what Romney said -- that he had heard reports about problems (and in fact there were reports about those very problems) -- and we saw the cacophony of anti-Romney screaming in the press, but crickets chirping about Obama's Egypt comment --- that should illustrate it pretty clearly.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You prove your idea, I'll prove mine.

I would think since you made the initial allegation, that you might prove your first.

Funny that no reporter or journalist thought to ask. Well, actually, it's not funny at all, it's become to be expected that the obvious questions aren't asked, and since the major news outlets didn't think this merited much reporting in the first place, nobody was in a hurry to ask "who was responsible for choosing the image, and who was responsible for approving it for display?"

Funny that you can't prove your case, or you would have already.

[Coito ergo sum]

You prove your idea, I'll prove mine.

I would think since you made the initial allegation, that you might prove your first.

Funny that no reporter or journalist thought to ask. Well, actually, it's not funny at all, it's become to be expected that the obvious questions aren't asked, and since the major news outlets didn't think this merited much reporting in the first place, nobody was in a hurry to ask "who was responsible for choosing the image, and who was responsible for approving it for display?"

Funny that you can't prove your case, or you would have already.

Same to you.

I already stated I didn't have proof, it just stands to reason. Only complete morons would delegate that kind of important task to a mere minimum wage underling, considering that it was a key piece of their presentation. I wouldn't insult the Democrats like that.

Let me know when you have any proof that they delegated the task to a minimum wage employee.

Now, the Democratic National Committee could have offered your "minimum wage employee" excuse, but they didn't. They stated it was some sort of unspecified "vendor error" that caused the wrong image to be used. Interestingly, the image of the Russian ships must have been altered purposefully, because there were F-5 jets streaking over the Russian military vessels. The Russians do not use F-5s. From the wing configuration, the Navy Times reported that they were probably Turkish military jets. The Turks haven't had joint military exercises with the Russians. So, apparently, someone must have spent some time working with the images to have the F-5 jets flying over the Russian Navy.

I suppose you could conclude that a minimum wage employee was in charge of doing that. Seems legit.

[Seabass]

Surely Fox News was all over those. Or is that not mainstream? You still seem to have heard all about these nano-gaffes, anyway.

I know Europeans tend to think Fox News controls America, but the truth is, more people watch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart than Fox's most popular prime time show, The O'Reilly Factor. Network news programs like NBC Nightly News enjoy three to five times the viewership of O'Reilly factor.

So no, I'd say Fox News is hardly mainstream. In fact, it's an aberration.

[Warren Dew]

What's the point with this thread, anyway?

It's a funny commentary on the relationship between the Democratic party and the military.

Maybe he couldn't tell the difference between U.S. and Soviet built ships, but one would think that Nathman, being a naval aviator, would at least have insisted on a picture of the Kiev!