Slaughtering and eating cats (NSFW?)

[lordpasternack]

Could your hypothetical animal be human in origin, Robert?

[Robert_S]

Could your hypothetical animal be human in origin, Robert?

For purposes of the thought experiment, it could be some ordinary variety of cow, with some advances made in agricultural practices regarding soil health, greenhouse emission control and manure management; it could be some GM frankenchicken; or it could be humans themselves really.

When I said "We bring an animal into existence and support it until say..." I meant the individual animals, not necessarily the species or variety if that's what you were thinking of.

[lordpasternack]

When I said "We bring an animal into existence and support it until say..." I meant the individual animals, not necessarily the species or variety if that's what you were thinking of.

Cool. I like the thought experiment, and I also agree that there is still a squeamishness about taking life seemingly unnecessarily - in the same way that I'd feel about going around 'euthanising' healthy people, or indeed their pets, willy-nilly.

Sentience matters to me - and that view still gives some precedence to adult humans - but I hold my view to be more rationally consistent and objective than bald anthropocentrism - saying that I just want to hold humans sancrosanct just because, and will be reluctant to afford privileges to other sentient beings because they're "not human".

[Robert_S]

When I said "We bring an animal into existence and support it until say..." I meant the individual animals, not necessarily the species or variety if that's what you were thinking of.

Cool. I like the thought experiment, and I also agree that there is still a squeamishness about taking life seemingly unnecessarily - in the same way that I'd feel about going around 'euthanising' healthy people, or indeed their pets, willy-nilly.

Sentience matters to me - and that view still gives some precedence to adult humans - but I hold my view to be more rationally consistent and objective than bald anthropocentrism - saying that I just want to hold humans sancrosanct just because, and will be reluctant to afford privileges to other sentient beings because they're "not human".

To me, suffering is the main issue.. at least I think it is. That said, the more sentient a being is, the more it has hopes for its future and the more it would suffer at the idea. But it also seems a cheap shot somehow to say that it's OK if we cause a human being to die in its sleep because at least it didn't suffer.

I'll also admit here that a great deal of what I call my ethics is me trying to get my hodgepodge of sentiments and notions into some kind of coherent order.

[lordpasternack]

You think much the same as me, Robert. Suffering is the main issue - but I also think sentience bears on the issue - and yes, it's a hodgepodge of sentiments and whatnot.

[Robert_S]

There is a similar issue issue with the deer some members of my family hunt. Until natural predators are reintroduced, they face overpopulation and starvation. So, they pretty much have to be hunted to avoid massive suffering. The meat is shared with the whole family and it is usually the only mammalian meat I eat.

But something about hunting as a sport doesn't sit entirely comfortably with me all the same. Ethically, I vastly prefer it to factory farming and there is something in me that would rather animals be "free" while they're alive. So I eat some venison here and there.

But how much of that is my weakness for meat. I love the taste and I have a very difficult time passing by the BBQ place because it smells sooooo good. I spent years as a pure vegetarian and I never lost the taste like they told me I would.

[lordpasternack]

Skatje Myers (PZ's daughter) takes a similar stance, in that she's mostly vegan, but will eat hunted meat. I have to admit that being a pansy European, I was for a while more viscerally perturbed by the idea of hunting than picking up meat in its more familiar ready-to-eat form.

Out of interest, though, and in line with your thought experiment - would you be fine with killing off some humans (with or without then eating them) in areas where overpopulation, poverty and starvation are a threat or are already rife?

[Robert_S]

Skatje Myers (PZ's daughter) takes a similar stance, in that she's mostly vegan, but will eat hunted meat. I have to admit that being a pansy European, I was for a while more viscerally perturbed by the idea of hunting than picking up meat in its more familiar ready-to-eat form.

Out of interest, though, and in line with your thought experiment - would you be fine with killing off some humans (with or without then eating them) in areas where overpopulation, poverty and starvation are a threat or are already rife?

From the inside of that situation, I'd have to say that if there was no other way to avoid certain starvation a month from now, I'd take my chances risking a choice between getting killed immediately by a sniper if it meant that if I survived I'd have a good chance at a long life with enough food. It's the Golden Rule applied to populations I guess.

From the outside, I'd have to consult the people in the overpopulated area.

[Hermit]

Has anyone shown clearly that plants are any more capable of suffering or being aware of what they are, than the soil they're growing in - that killing and eating plants is ethically distinguishable from eating mashed rocks? Are plants capable of feeling sensory pain, of suffering - of feeling fear, loss, mourning, or anything, in relation to their own death or death of others around them? Are they aware of their existence or of anything's existence, and how they'd vaguely like to keep being?

Yes!

[Tero]

well, not eating, but a handy device in any case

[Seth]

A saying from a fishing friend about hatchery-raised Steelhead: "Made by Man, for Man." Same thing with cats. And don't think the cats wouldn't do the same thing to us if they were able to...

[Robert_S]

A saying from a fishing friend about hatchery-raised Steelhead: "Made by Man, for Man." Same thing with cats. And don't think the cats wouldn't do the same thing to us if they were able to...

Can parents hunt and kill their own children for sport then?

[Seth]

A saying from a fishing friend about hatchery-raised Steelhead: "Made by Man, for Man." Same thing with cats. And don't think the cats wouldn't do the same thing to us if they were able to...

Can parents hunt and kill their own children for sport then?

Sure, if they want to go to jail for murder. Cats, on the other hand, don't have civil rights. Neither do Steelhead.

[Robert_S]

A saying from a fishing friend about hatchery-raised Steelhead: "Made by Man, for Man." Same thing with cats. And don't think the cats wouldn't do the same thing to us if they were able to...

Can parents hunt and kill their own children for sport then?

Sure, if they want to go to jail for murder. Cats, on the other hand, don't have civil rights. Neither do Steelhead.

Ah, but is causing suffering for sport the sign of a person with any ethical sense worth speaking of?

[Seth]

A saying from a fishing friend about hatchery-raised Steelhead: "Made by Man, for Man." Same thing with cats. And don't think the cats wouldn't do the same thing to us if they were able to...

Can parents hunt and kill their own children for sport then?

Sure, if they want to go to jail for murder. Cats, on the other hand, don't have civil rights. Neither do Steelhead.

Ah, but is causing suffering for sport the sign of a person with any ethical sense worth speaking of?

Depends on what you mean by "ethics."