Highest Paid Teachers Reject 16% Raise - Go on Strike.

[Tyrannical]

Of course teachers work hard, but why do Chicago teachers deserve to be the best paid in the entire nation? Some of the best performing school districts in the US have have amongst the lowest paid teachers.

IMO, the fact that $76k per year makes you "the best paid in the nation" in a profession that (nowdays) requires you to have a masters degree is pathetic, especially when we add in the fact that they're responsible for educating the nation's youth.

School district funding is based on the local and State tax base and should reflect that tax payer's ability to pay. On that basis, the ability to pay, they are over paid.
It does not cost a fortune to educate, we did fine with black boards and one room school houses. With modern technology and the internet it should be even cheaper.

[Coito ergo sum]

The kids could get a better education for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.

[Gerald McGrew]

Sometimes they work nights and weekends - rarely holidays, unless they choose to save work until then. But, they also get 2 months off. But, if they have a 5 hour and 45 minute school day, like in Chicago, I would expect 3 more hours a day, or 15 hours a week, to cover a full day. One can get a lot of paper-grading and class prep done in that time. And, if you work 9 or 10 hours a day for 180 days out of the year and summers off for the wages and benefits their getting in Chicago, I would think that'd be minimum. Other professions do that and more. I won't accuse them of working less than anyone else, but they're being fairly compensated and the rest of their complaints are bullshit.

I've heard of the spending their own money for supplies thing -- I suspect it's exaggerated, and it's certainly not something the school districts require.

Sorry, but your "Well, I figure..." doesn't refute my direct observations. I know what sorts of hours and conditions public school teachers work under, specifically inner city school teachers.

You make it sound like it's a cushy, overpaid profession. If you honestly think that, you're even more clueless than I imagined.

[Gerald McGrew]

School district funding is based on the local and State tax base and should reflect that tax payer's ability to pay. On that basis, the ability to pay, they are over paid.

They also receive federal funds. Further, don't assume that a local district or even a state is funding a school to its fullest ability. School levies get voted down all the time, and states cut education budgets as well. Oftentimes these results are not based on an inability to pay, but an ideologically driven unwillingness to fund public education, or pay any taxes at all (or my favorite, "I don't have kids, so why should I pay").

It does not cost a fortune to educate, we did fine with black boards and one room school houses. With modern technology and the internet it should be even cheaper.

Oh FFS. Really? What costs more, a blackboard or a desktop computer?

[Gerald McGrew]

The kids could get a better education for $1.50 in late fees at the public library.

Well, we've officially jumped the shark.

[Coito ergo sum]

Have you seen the stats on how dumb American high school graduates are?

We could get those results by paying the teachers half as much, and babysitting the kids while they read.

If you think the schools are doing a good job now, then this is the appropriate response to you:

[Ian]

Have you seen the stats on how dumb American high school graduates are?

We could get those results by paying the teachers half as much, and babysitting the kids while they read.

My wife would personally whup the crap out of you if she heard you say that in person.

[Coito ergo sum]

Sometimes they work nights and weekends - rarely holidays, unless they choose to save work until then. But, they also get 2 months off. But, if they have a 5 hour and 45 minute school day, like in Chicago, I would expect 3 more hours a day, or 15 hours a week, to cover a full day. One can get a lot of paper-grading and class prep done in that time. And, if you work 9 or 10 hours a day for 180 days out of the year and summers off for the wages and benefits their getting in Chicago, I would think that'd be minimum. Other professions do that and more. I won't accuse them of working less than anyone else, but they're being fairly compensated and the rest of their complaints are bullshit.

I've heard of the spending their own money for supplies thing -- I suspect it's exaggerated, and it's certainly not something the school districts require.

Sorry, but your "Well, I figure..." doesn't refute my direct observations. I know what sorts of hours and conditions public school teachers work under, specifically inner city school teachers.

You make it sound like it's a cushy, overpaid profession. If you honestly think that, you're even more clueless than I imagined.

First, go fuck yourself, again. Only because I am really sick of your constant snide insinuations and your douchey comments like "If you honestly think that, you're even more clueless than I imagined." I will ask you again, kindly refrain from insinuating that others are "idiots" or "clueless." It's unbecoming, and makes you sound like a Skepchick. Next thing you'll be calling me is a "mansplainer" and you'll be carping about me "gaslighting" you. Just make your fucking argument without peppering it with nonsense like that.

Second, I did not say it was an overpaid "profession." I said the Chicago teacher's copensation and benefits are plenty, probably overpaid, and the rest of their gripes are bullshit, and I stand by that.

Third, I did not say they don't work hard. I just will not subscribe to the notion that they are somehow harder working than anyone else. I also reject the notion that they work toiling into the night 7 days a week and holidays -- because they don't. You're not the only one with a lot of experience with teachers. I've dated teachers. I've friends that are teachers.

Fourth, the hours they work during the school year, even if it was 10 hours a day including lunch, wouldn't phase me, because that sounds about right for $76,000 a year plus phenomenal benefits and job security, etc. Not to mention that they get 2+ months of free time in the summer, and massive numbers of vacation/holiday days that hardly anyone else gets. So, boo fucking hoo - they work hard grading papers after the grueling 5 hour and 45 minute school day. What does that merit them? $100k a year?

[Gerald McGrew]

First, go fuck yourself, again. Only because I am really sick of your constant snide insinuations and your douchey comments like "If you honestly think that, you're even more clueless than I imagined." I will ask you again, kindly refrain from insinuating that others are "idiots" or "clueless." It's unbecoming, and makes you sound like a Skepchick. Next thing you'll be calling me is a "mansplainer" and you'll be carping about me "gaslighting" you. Just make your fucking argument without peppering it with nonsense like that.

Riiiiiight...I'll just stick to your preferred method of repeating "Go fuck yourself" over and over. Much better!

Second, I did not say it was an overpaid "profession." I said the Chicago teacher's copensation and benefits are plenty, probably overpaid, and the rest of their gripes are bullshit, and I stand by that.

Of course you do. $76k per year is obviously far too much for a person with a masters degree, 10 years experience, and a high workload. I guess for your sake it's a good thing they don't make the same as other professionals with similar requirements and experience.

Third, I did not say they don't work hard. I just will not subscribe to the notion that they are somehow harder working than anyone else. I also reject the notion that they work toiling into the night 7 days a week and holidays -- because they don't. You're not the only one with a lot of experience with teachers. I've dated teachers. I've friends that are teachers.

So you at least acknowledge that they "work hard". That's mighty big of you. A hard working, stressful position that requires you to have a masters degree....and $76k per year is just WAY TOO MUCH!! Sad.

Fourth, the hours they work during the school year, even if it was 10 hours a day including lunch, wouldn't phase me, because that sounds about right for $76,000 a year plus phenomenal benefits and job security, etc.

Phenomenal job security? Where the fuck have you been lately? Since the recession, about 130,000 public school teachers have been laid off. At my kids' school, they're combining 4th and 5th grades into single classes because they've had to lay off so many teachers. Jesus Christ but you're way off base.

Not to mention that they get 2+ months of free time in the summer, and massive numbers of vacation/holiday days that hardly anyone else gets. So, boo fucking hoo - they work hard grading papers after the grueling 5 hour and 45 minute school day. What does that merit them? $100k a year?

Pathetic. Your vitriol for school teachers speaks for itself.

I may as well be talking to a Mormon about how great a cup of coffee is in the morning.

[Gerald McGrew]

Teacher X: Why I'm striking http://chiteacherx.blogspot.com/2012/09 ... g-jcb.html

Why the Chicago Teachers Union Deserves Support http://dianeravitch.net/2012/09/08/why- ... s-support/

Chicago Teachers Union Press Release http://www.ctunet.com/blog/cps-fails-to ... n-25-years

[Pappa]

First, go fuck yourself, again.

Regarding the above, and here: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 7#p1268617

Coito, this is a reminder to please play nice.

[Coito ergo sum]

Have you seen the stats on how dumb American high school graduates are?

We could get those results by paying the teachers half as much, and babysitting the kids while they read.

My wife would personally whup the crap out of you if she heard you say that in person.

So, she believes that American high school students are graduating well, then?

Just 13 percent of high school seniors who took the 2010 National Assessment of Educational Progress — called the Nation's Report Card — showed solid academic performance in American history. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43397386/ns ... wzLFflXk3w

"These results tell us that, as a country, we are failing to provide children with a high-quality, well-rounded education."

- Education Secretary Arne Duncan.

*Only 43 percent of all U.S. high school students knew that the Civil War was fought some time between 1850 and 1900.

*More than a quarter of all U.S. high school students thought that Christopher Columbus made his famous voyage across the Atlantic Ocean after the year 1750.

*Approximately a third of all U.S. high school students did not know that the Bill of Rights guarantees freedom of speech and freedom of religion. (This is a topic that I touched on yesterday).

*Only 60 percent of all U.S. students knew that World War I was fought some time between 1900 and 1950.

Even more shocking were the results of a survey of Oklahoma high school students conducted back in 2009. The following is a list of the questions that were asked and the percentage of students that answered correctly....

What is the supreme law of the land? 28 percent

What do we call the first ten amendments to the Constitution? 26 percent

What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress? 27 percent

How many justices are there on the Supreme Court? 10 percent

Who wrote the Declaration of Independence? 14 percent

What ocean is on the east coast of the United States? 61 percent

What are the two major political parties in the United States? 43 percent

We elect a U.S. senator for how many years? 11 percent

Who was the first President of the United States? 23 percent

Who is in charge of the executive branch? 29 percent

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... o-not-know

It gets worse. My friend cites the fact that, of the 6,000 high school students he estimates he's taught over the span of his career, only a small fraction now make it to his grade with a functioning understanding of written English. They do not know how to form a sentence. They cannot write an intelligible paragraph. Recently, after giving an assignment that required drawing lines, he realized that not a single student actually knew how to use a ruler.

Today, American 15-year-olds do not even rank in the top half of all advanced nations when it comes to math or science literacy.

http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/flo ... in-decline

Obviously, whatever we're doing isn't working.

[Ian]

Have you seen the stats on how dumb American high school graduates are?

We could get those results by paying the teachers half as much, and babysitting the kids while they read.

My wife would personally whup the crap out of you if she heard you say that in person.

So, she believes that American high school students are graduating well, then?

Not even going to read the rest of your stupid post. You know that's not what I meant.

[Coito ergo sum]

MacGrew -- can it with all the snide remarks and insinuations, please. This is the 5th time I'm asking you. Knock it the fuck off.

Now, also stop it with this "teachers have to have master's degrees" - they don't. Barely 1/2 of all teachers have masters degrees. And, most of them go to school for their master's degrees on the public dime as additional compensation. The rest of the country has to pay for their school, generally speaking, if their employer will even give them the time off or schedule flexible enough to make it to classes.

The average salary for full-time public school teachers in 2010–11 was $56,069 in current dollars (i.e. dollars that are not adjusted for inflation). In constant (inflation-adjusted) dollars, the average salary was about 3 percent higher in 2010–11 than in 1990–91. That's nationally. In Chicago, it's $76,000 -- so fucking can it with your self-righteous bullshit.

It isn't a sin to suggest that they are being compensated at least fairly. This is a common theme that we have to fawn over teachers as if they're the most important thing in the world. Well, it may be politically incorrect, but when I see the compensation and benefits package and working conditions of the Chicago teachers, and see what their striking over, and then compare that to the uneducated graduates they're unleashing on the world, I am pretty sure they're making what they're worth.

[Coito ergo sum]

Have you seen the stats on how dumb American high school graduates are?

We could get those results by paying the teachers half as much, and babysitting the kids while they read.

My wife would personally whup the crap out of you if she heard you say that in person.

So, she believes that American high school students are graduating well, then?

Not even going to read the rest of your stupid post. You know that's not what I meant.

Well, in the private sector we generally have to justify ourselves for raises and bonuses and promotions. I don't see why it's so wrong to require the same thing of public sector employees.

And, my post isn't stupid. It's the "results" that teachers are paid to achieve. If paying them more money is not going to improve results, then why should they get more money? That's the test the rest of us live by. Look - an average salary of $56,000 a year -- much less the average Chicago teacher salary of $76,000 a year -- is much higher than the national average for everyone else. So, that means that they are certainly being paid a decent living. They aren't fucking destitute and living in hovels and cooking on a hot plate, saving up for the next time they can go to the movies. They're doing at least pretty good.

We're in a fucking bad economic time. I really think it is in poor taste for teachers making $76,000 a year to be striking when the people who are all chipping in to pay their salaries make much, much less -- like 40%+ less. Jesus Christ.