The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by colubridae » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:36 pm

Robert_S wrote:Actually, my experience posting there was that they were quite open to dissent. So much so that they probably won't get shit done because the works will be clogged up with trolls. IMO, if they wanna be a player in any kind of progressive movement, they need to get a little bit quicker on the banhammer.

Not one of the Skepchicks came and pestered us here at Rationalia. Wossname over at FtB did do a bit of a Leeroy Jenkins and PZ Myers did make some sweepign statements about this place while standing up for his friends.

But Rationalia cannot really take the high ground on that joke issue. I was trying to explain to some people how Rationalia wasn't really all that sexist, rapey and hostile while several posters here were providing evidence to the contrary just for shits and giggles.

Oh, by the way everybody: Using sexist language, stereotypes and tropes to deride someone for allegedly overstating the amount of sexism in a community doesn't fucking work like you think it will.

For someone who found whinging about whingers whingeing surreal you still seem to be whingeing. I'm whingeing about you now. That makes me a fourth dan (judo) whinger! Do I win?

:hehe:

Ps I’m not taking the moral high ground. I’m pointing out the moral failures of those screaming at the tops of their voices that theirs is the one and only moral high ground; and everyone not with them on their self-righteous lofty perch is a scumbag.

And just to remind you dear Robert, they threatened to release personal information. Someone ratted the joke thread to the webhost. They splattered hate all over rationalia and FtB. Someone actually said that rationalia smelled like the rotting corpse of a dead baby! If you like them and approve of what they did/do then say so. Stop trying to spin them into a thing not-so-dark/ludicrous/whiny.

I don’t care if you have posted successfully there. I’m not trying to post there. It’s their forum - their rules. But I don’t like being told by whingeing brats that I’m scum for not being with them.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Rum » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:55 pm

Fuck - I've entered into an argument over there about so called 'mansplaining'. Apparently because I am in a position of privilege I do it whether I know it or not. I am already fuming.

I think I had better leave before I am banned.

Better still perhaps wait to be banned...

Edit: This should be in the Declared War thread..copying it.

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Audley Strange » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:02 pm

Welcome to the last 18 months.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Ayaan » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:09 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:Wow... they'll even edit out the content of people's posts without their permission...

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... t=50#p6440

That just seems... wrong. :?
What's even more wrong is that no one other than Rum seemed to have a problem with it. I've seen forums that would delete the contents of a spam or porn post, or even one in gross violation of the rules, but never because someone on staff decided they didn't like it:
You're starting to get very very boring. Change the fucking record.

(Edited by Hyperdeath.)
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Rum » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:16 pm

I am in favour of feminism. It doesn't matter if I'm not, it is still a good thing.

However I am also cautious about the way it goes about its business because of a personal experience a long time ago when I was a doing my social work degree.

The course I did required two 'placements', i.e. practical experience and plumped for one of mine in as different an environment as I could find - which was a community centre in the middle of a poor area of Bristol.

While I was there I had to do a number of smaller projects and one of them was to get a group together to think up and paint a large mural on the wall of a large meeting hall in the centre.

We got a group started and after a lot of negotiation we agreed that the mural would show slightly abstracted and prettified scenes from the industrial past of Bristol.

One of the bits to do with the heavy industrial period of the early part of the 20th century showed men working in a steel mill and women at home doing housework. This of course was the way things were done back then.

Well a few on the project group were heavy duty feminists and they kicked up a fuss about this (despite the fact that smaller sketches and miniature versions of the mural had been distributed for consultation). They insisted that the images stereotyped women, showed them in inferior roles and all the rest of it. No amount of explaining that the images were meant to reflect the reality of the time and that (in my view as a pretty heavy duty Marxist at the time) that their labour was as exploited as much as that of the men.

In the end I was forced to change the mural by the centre manager, who was also my placement supervisor. He threatened me with failing the placement if I didn't.

So - the cause of feminism required the re-writing of actual historical facts. I left the placement, just scraping through and very pissed off indeed.

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:16 pm

Ayaan wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:Wow... they'll even edit out the content of people's posts without their permission...

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... t=50#p6440

That just seems... wrong. :?
What's even more wrong is that no one other than Rum seemed to have a problem with it. I've seen forums that would delete the contents of a spam or porn post, or even one in gross violation of the rules, but never because someone on staff decided they didn't like it:
You're starting to get very very boring. Change the fucking record.

(Edited by Hyperdeath.)
I look forward to a certain supposed proponent of democracy taking up that gauntlet over there. :coffee:
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by hadespussercats » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:25 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:
Ayaan wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:Wow... they'll even edit out the content of people's posts without their permission...

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... t=50#p6440

That just seems... wrong. :?
What's even more wrong is that no one other than Rum seemed to have a problem with it. I've seen forums that would delete the contents of a spam or porn post, or even one in gross violation of the rules, but never because someone on staff decided they didn't like it:
You're starting to get very very boring. Change the fucking record.

(Edited by Hyperdeath.)
I look forward to a certain supposed proponent of democracy taking up that gauntlet over there. :coffee:
Really? The prospect fills me with existential dread. :mrgreen:

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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Audley Strange » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:27 pm

Rum wrote:I am in favour of feminism. It doesn't matter if I'm not, it is still a good thing.

However I am also cautious about the way it goes about its business because of a personal experience a long time ago when I was a doing my social work degree.

The course I did required two 'placements', i.e. practical experience and plumped for one of mine in as different an environment as I could find - which was a community centre in the middle of a poor area of Bristol.

While I was there I had to do a number of smaller projects and one of them was to get a group together to think up and paint a large mural on the wall of a large meeting hall in the centre.

We got a group started and after a lot of negotiation we agreed that the mural would show slightly abstracted and prettified scenes from the industrial past of Bristol.

One of the bits to do with the heavy industrial period of the early part of the 20th century showed men working in a steel mill and women at home doing housework. This of course was the way things were done back then.

Well a few on the project group were heavy duty feminists and they kicked up a fuss about this (despite the fact that smaller sketches and miniature versions of the mural had been distributed for consultation). They insisted that the images stereotyped women, showed them in inferior roles and all the rest of it. No amount of explaining that the images were meant to reflect the reality of the time and that (in my view as a pretty heavy duty Marxist at the time) that their labour was as exploited as much as that of the men.

In the end I was forced to change the mural by the centre manager, who was also my placement supervisor. He threatened me with failing the placement if I didn't.

So - the cause of feminism required the re-writing of actual historical facts. I left the placement, just scraping through and very pissed off indeed.
Are you in favour of feminism rum or are you in favour of women's rights? There is clearly a difference and that distinction was made by Feminists.

You cannot reason with them. I've been trying for decades, everything is vague or anecdotal or just nonsense rhetoric. Feminism is not about fighting for Women's rights its about highlighting some men's wrongs and claiming that evidence of systematic oppression even to the extent of asking someone for a fucking coffee.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:30 pm

hadespussercats wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:
Ayaan wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:Wow... they'll even edit out the content of people's posts without their permission...

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... t=50#p6440

That just seems... wrong. :?
What's even more wrong is that no one other than Rum seemed to have a problem with it. I've seen forums that would delete the contents of a spam or porn post, or even one in gross violation of the rules, but never because someone on staff decided they didn't like it:
You're starting to get very very boring. Change the fucking record.

(Edited by Hyperdeath.)
I look forward to a certain supposed proponent of democracy taking up that gauntlet over there. :coffee:
Really? The prospect fills me with existential dread. :mrgreen:

I skid.
Fxd.

Oh do tell me your fecalings about the matter...

:leave:
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by DaveD » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:37 pm

It seems that a moderator's ennui is as devastating as violent threats.
http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... 7051#p7051
Rum, in the other thread, you said that deletion was on your list of no-nos.
Please keep in mind that we are trying to create a safe space here.
Keep in mind also that this community has been under heavy attack from trolls, some of whom have made threats of rape and death. We have even attracted David M****, a widely known spammer who has threatened to murder prominent atheists personally.
I think that this apparent preference that the mods should stand on (your) principles rather than do what it takes to maintain a space where people are not threatened and harassed is callous and misguided at best.
I wonder if Mabus really has been there, or whether that's just an attempt to garner sympathy.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Audley Strange » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:40 pm

Well if he has, they practically invited him.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:40 pm

There was a thread that looked like him. As if that's a badge of honour. Hell, he signed up here years ago and apparently thought we were too small potatoes to bother with. :hehe:
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Audley Strange » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:44 pm

Wasn't he arrested for his behaviour? If they suspect he's trolling them why not do something really radical and contact the police?

Perhaps all the traumas they've collectively endured and imagined has made them forget the number?
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by Bella Fortuna » Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:47 pm

Audley Strange wrote:Wasn't he arrested for his behaviour? If they suspect he's trolling them why not do something really radical and contact the police?

Perhaps all the traumas they've collectively endured and imagined has made them forget the number?
Yes, and in looking into this read somewhere that part of his release (?) specified that he must stay away from internet fora and discussion boards. They should be reporting it to the police if it is him.
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Re: The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

Post by hadespussercats » Fri Sep 07, 2012 6:12 pm

Bella Fortuna wrote:
hadespussercats wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:
Ayaan wrote:
Bella Fortuna wrote:Wow... they'll even edit out the content of people's posts without their permission...

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic ... t=50#p6440

That just seems... wrong. :?
What's even more wrong is that no one other than Rum seemed to have a problem with it. I've seen forums that would delete the contents of a spam or porn post, or even one in gross violation of the rules, but never because someone on staff decided they didn't like it:
You're starting to get very very boring. Change the fucking record.

(Edited by Hyperdeath.)
I look forward to a certain supposed proponent of democracy taking up that gauntlet over there. :coffee:
Really? The prospect fills me with existential dread. :mrgreen:

I skid.
Fxd.

Oh do tell me your fecalings about the matter...

:leave:
:? On turd thought...
The green careening planet
spins blindly in the dark
so close to annihilation.

Listen. No one listens. Meow.

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