You cunt! I mean, you dick! I mean...

[charlou]

... place in a game ... Kinda says it all, doesn't it?

[Audley Strange]

I wish. Any chance you could elaborate on that. I used game as we were using a card analogy, I hope you don't think I'm dismissing that these games have grim heavy and mortal consequences.

@Hades.

There are no words I wouldn't use, but it depends entirely on context and there are words I would not use lightly even dependant on that. But they are only symbols and hoots. They are tools it is our use of them, like most tools, that can be beneficial or detrimental.

[hadespussercats]

I'm just bumping myself so questions are on the top page--

Well, I need to think some more.

In the meantime-- hey, everyone-- what do you think of Audley's sense of things? ETA-- here: http://www.rationalia.com/forum/viewtop ... 0#p1262236
Also:
Pappa, why were you in a position to look at Spanish customs of cursing? You wrote a detailed, interesting post, and I'm surprised no one has followed up with questions. ( I have more, but I'm distracted ATM-- hopefully I'll be able to pursue them.)
And:
What are your point no plus words?
I think for John fi Skye it's "flid." (Based on a previous post.)
I don't use N----- (see?) but I'm not sure it qualifies, since there are many people who do use it and it doesn't bug me.
If you have one, why that one?

RiverF-- I'd love it if you could expand a bit, too...

[charlou]

No, Audley .. I wasn't thinking you were being dismissive .. or otherwise trivialising this in any way.

It does seem like a game, though ... not an intentional, contrived or planned game, but a game we're in due to established cultural values and practices having such a strong influence and imposing "roles" upon the players. This isn't confined to the concept of gender difference or sexual power, either.

[hadespussercats]

No, Audley .. I wasn't thinking you were being dismissive .. or otherwise trivialising this in any way.

It does seem like a game, though ... not an intentional, contrived or planned game, but a game we're in due to established cultural values and practices having such a strong influence and imposing "roles" upon the players. This isn't confined to the concept of gender difference or sexual power, either.

What's the role of cursing/ridicule within it?

[charlou]

That's a tool, not a role, I think.

[Audley Strange]

No, Audley .. I wasn't thinking you were being dismissive .. or otherwise trivialising this in any way.

It does seem like a game, though ... not an intentional, contrived or planned game, but a game we're in due to established cultural values and practices having such a strong influence and imposing "roles" upon the players. This isn't confined to the concept of gender difference or sexual power, either.

I appreciate the clarification.

I agree with you, I think such values and thus the language use are sophisticated but unconscious manifestations of primitive competitive behaviours which can anything from the "verbal peacock feathers" of earlier through to the eradication of a culture for resources. I'm not sure though if it's just an influence, even a strong one, it seems to be as much the meat of us as cooperation is.

[hadespussercats]

That's a tool, not a role, I think.

Keeping people in their places?

[JimC]

That's a tool, not a role, I think.

Keeping people in their places?

Or asserting your role relative to their's...

[charlou]

Yes, to all three of you ^^^

I'm not sure though if it's just an influence, even a strong one, it seems to be as much the meat of us as cooperation is.

Yes, I think so ... And that point also tempers any possible anthropomorphic interpretation when evaluating it. Thank you.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

That's a tool, not a role, I think.

Keeping people in their places?

Or asserting your role relative to their's...

Call yourself a teacher!

/grammar nazi interruption - please carry on...

[charlou]

[JimC]

That's a tool, not a role, I think.

Keeping people in their places?

Or asserting your role relative to their's...

Call yourself a teacher!

/grammar nazi interruption - please carry on...

Physics teachers are above all these petty linguistic conventions...

[surreptitious57]

What are your point no plus words?
I think for John Skye it's flid. (Based on a previous post.)
I don't use N----- (see?) but I'm not sure it qualifies, since there are many people who do use it and it doesn't bug me.
If you have one, why that one?

George Carlin once said that words are just that and in and of themselves, harmless. He then demonstrated this by calling his friend, Richard Pryor a nigger. John Lennon once called woman, the nigger of the world, which is interesting on more than one level. I recently saw an argument from one of light skin, as to why only dark skinned comedians can make jokes about niggers, to which my first thought was: go ahead, no one's stopping you, but you are going to have to move mountains to convince them that the first and only thought in their heads as to why you want to do this, is not actually true. But even if it wasn't and it was beyond all reasonable doubt would it be tolerated in a liberal democratic society?

But George's point is true. What is actually offensive is not the arrangement of vowels and consonants, but the meaning that they convey. But even more so, how this manifests itself. Take spastic as an example. When it was first introduced into the language, children gave its meaning a derogatory implication. Now spas as it was sometimes abbreviated to, or in its original form, still meant the same thing, but no longer was it a neutral term. It was now emotionally laden. So the Spastics Society changed its name to Scope. And guess what happened? Exactly the same thing. What is interesting here is how for many, the word itself, became inseperable from what it actually meant in derogatory form.

I am not against any words at all in principle, though I self censor. For me, as one who believes in absolute free speech, you can say whatever you like, as long as there is no ulterior motive. Because otherwise, how am I going to know what you are thinking? Where there is ulterior motive, there are laws against that and rightly so. I am however completely against political correctness, which determines what cannot and cannot be said, regardless. The problem here is that language manipulation is seen as the end, rather as a means towards the end. One needs to change perceptions as well as wordage here. It really gets sad when you cannot say blackboard because it is perceived racist or manhole because it is perceived as sexist and no, I am not making this up. Political correctness needs to go, and go now. End of.

[Pappa]

Hades, I had a couple of Spanish friends back in Uni. I was always interested in picking up greetings, obscenities and any language oddities from people I met from other parts of the world. The Spanish guys taught me a load of excellent obscenities and slang, though I only remember a handful of the best ones now.

It's interesting that "puta" and its cognates mean whore in several European languages, but its usage is more akin to "fuck" as an expletive. Again, idk if that has anything to say about gender bias though.