fifty years later...sorry, flids

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fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by tattuchu » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:16 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/thalidomide-victi ... 1486284996

"In the name of Gruenenthal ... I want to take this opportunity to express our deep regret over the consequences of Contergan and our deep sympathy for the victims, their mothers and families," Stock said at the ceremony in the western German city of Stolberg, where the company is based. "We also ask for forgiveness for not reaching out to you from human to human for almost 50 years ... We ask that you see our long speechlessness as a sign of the silent shock that your fate has caused us."

:what:

but...

Gruenenthal said it had acted to the best of its knowledge. "In developing Contergan, Gruenenthal acted according to the scientific knowledge back then and fulfilled all industrial standards for the testing of new medication," Stock said.

Is that true? If so, can the drug maker be held legally responsible? In this light, I guess I can see why they might not have wanted to apologize sooner, as an apology could be seen as an admission of guilt. Of course regardless of legal responsibility, there's moral responsibility.
What do you make of all this? Thalidomide wasn't widely used here, I don't think, but I remember hearing about it as a kid and being horrified by it. Horrified, in that I hoped to Christ i never saw a Thalidomide kid because I didn't have a strong stomach for that sort of thing.
People think "queue" is just "q" followed by 4 silent letters.

But those letters are not silent.

They're just waiting their turn.

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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:23 pm

One of my neighbors in grade school was a Thalidomide baby. She lived to age 13. She was one of the bravest, toughest people I ever met. On her 12th birthday she went skydiving, her one wish in the whole world. I don't know if tandem skydiving was common before that, but the instructor had to make a special rig for her.
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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by Rum » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:25 pm

They are simply (?) being very careful what they admit to. There has been one round of pathetically low settlements, but the true costs of the care of those affected would be enough to bankrupt a small country if the compensation claims started again and were successful.

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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by tattuchu » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:27 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:One of my neighbors in grade school was a Thalidomide baby. She lived to age 13. She was one of the bravest, toughest people I ever met. On her 12th birthday she went skydiving, her one wish in the whole world. I don't know if tandem skydiving was common before that, but the instructor had to make a special rig for her.
It's definitely heartbreaking. Christ, I can't even imagine.
Why did she only live to age 13? Did she have internal abnormalities as well? I was surprised to find, while reading up a little on the subject, that it wasn't just malformed or missing arms or legs. It could be a lot more than that.
People think "queue" is just "q" followed by 4 silent letters.

But those letters are not silent.

They're just waiting their turn.

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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:31 pm

Sexy :smoke:
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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:33 pm

tattuchu wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:One of my neighbors in grade school was a Thalidomide baby. She lived to age 13. She was one of the bravest, toughest people I ever met. On her 12th birthday she went skydiving, her one wish in the whole world. I don't know if tandem skydiving was common before that, but the instructor had to make a special rig for her.
It's definitely heartbreaking. Christ, I can't even imagine.
Why did she only live to age 13? Did she have internal abnormalities as well? I was surprised to find, while reading up a little on the subject, that it wasn't just malformed or missing arms or legs. It could be a lot more than that.
She fell off a horse and broke her neck. (There was only one person pacing her and the horse reared.) Not directly related to her problem, except that a healthy 13 yo could have probably survived.

The preacher at her funeral said "God has called her home to spare her from suffering." At that point her mother, who I could tell was getting more and more incensed, stood up and said, "Why the HELL didn't he call her home in the womb and spare her 13 years of hell?"
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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by FBM » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:34 pm

Well, if they followed regulations that were in force at the time, I'm not sure how they could be held accountable. Hind-sight is 20-20, and such horrors as this are the reason why we have stricter guidelines now. Not that that justifies all the suffering of those children, but that's the way knowledge progresses, through trial-and-error. IF they didn't violate any laws or industry guidelines at the time, how can we hold them accountable by today's standards? It's not like the tobacco industry, which knew about the addictiveness of nicotine and the carcinogenic effects of smoking, but covered it up and obfuscated about it for profits.
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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by Tero » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:35 pm

We were lucky not to have more thalidomides. Drugs were not routinely tested in rat offspring.
In the United States, pharmacologist Frances Oldham Kelsey M.D. withstood pressure from the Richardson-Merrell company and refused Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval to market thalidomide, saying further studies were needed.
Thanks to Frances, I had a job in 1982, I ended up working for RM, then Merrell-Dow. They had to pull another morning sickness drug off the market. It had no effect on the babies. But people sued anyway for Bendectin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bendectin

It was not a teratogen. But thanks to the law suit pregnant women are still puking.

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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by tattuchu » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:38 pm

For anyone who likes comics, this was a very powerful and very well done comic (or "graphic novel" if you prefer) back from the days when there was a vibrant alternative publishing thing going on. Worth seeking out if you can find it. Amazon has used copies listed for twenny bucks. I have a copy but fuck you I ain't never giving it up.
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People think "queue" is just "q" followed by 4 silent letters.

But those letters are not silent.

They're just waiting their turn.

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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by tattuchu » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:43 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote: The preacher at her funeral said "God has called her home to spare her from suffering." At that point her mother, who I could tell was getting more and more incensed, stood up and said, "Why the HELL didn't he call her home in the womb and spare her 13 years of hell?"
I suppose they have to say something. They mean well, I guess :?
Although sometimes you do want to punch them in the fucking face :ddpan:
People think "queue" is just "q" followed by 4 silent letters.

But those letters are not silent.

They're just waiting their turn.

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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:48 pm

tattuchu wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote: The preacher at her funeral said "God has called her home to spare her from suffering." At that point her mother, who I could tell was getting more and more incensed, stood up and said, "Why the HELL didn't he call her home in the womb and spare her 13 years of hell?"
I suppose they have to say something. They mean well, I guess :?
Although sometimes you do want to punch them in the fucking face :ddpan:
It takes a true moron to say that her suffering in this life are irrelevant. Her mom became very atheistic after that, somewhat ahead or the times for a 1960s Indiana farm town.
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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by tattuchu » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:02 pm

Brian Peacock wrote: Sexy :smoke:
Not bad for someone with very little in the way of arms!

In middle school, all us kids were herded into the lunch room to watch a movie one day. They did this sometimes. We didn't know why. It's just that some days, quite unexpectedly, were movie days. Naturally we were all excited at the prospect of getting out of class and watching a movie. But this one was different. It was an educational film. I guess that's what it was meant to be. There was no introduction to it given by a teacher or the Principal that I recall. Just, "Okay we're going to watch a movie." And no discussion of it afterward. No, it was basically, here, watch this movie that we're not going to tell you anything about or warn you about, and be traumatized for the rest of your life.
It was a film about a boy with no arms, a Thalidomide kid. It showed him doing various everyday stuff, putting on his artificial arms harness and such, and even showed him swimming. The images in that movie have haunted me all these years. I've often thought of writing a story about a boy with no arms because of it. But I know nothing about the reality of living life like that. I'd have to do a hell of a lot of research. And then I read that comic, Skin, and thought, "Ah well, okay, it's been done."
Last edited by tattuchu on Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
People think "queue" is just "q" followed by 4 silent letters.

But those letters are not silent.

They're just waiting their turn.

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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by hadespussercats » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:20 pm

Who was the politician her that ran for national office in the early nineties and was a thalidomide baby? I can't remember. One arm missing.

Yeah, yeah. Google. brb.
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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by hadespussercats » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:24 pm

Can't find it. This news story is gumming up the works. :(

I should try harder, but I won't.
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Re: fifty years later...sorry, flids

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Sep 02, 2012 11:28 pm

tattuchu wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote: Sexy :smoke:
Not bad for someone with very little in the way of arms!
I'm sorry to disagree with you tatt - but that's not bad for anyone, regardless of the length of their arms.


;)
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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