Guns used for lawful self defense

[Seth]

But what if I was just offering to cut you a nice slice of cake?

Then you wouldn't be threatening me. If, however, you suddenly snap into a psychotic episode merely because you have touched a deadly weapon (the knife) and attack me, cake be damned, I'll go right ahead and shoot you. I'd have to worry about that because evidently in Britain, people tend to go suddenly and unexpectedly psychotic and begin murder sprees simply because they have possession of something that can be turned into a deadly weapons. It appears that Brits are so mentally unstable as a nation that it's probably a good thing they ban guns and demand blunt-tipped kitchen knives.

Sheesh.

[Blind groper]

Come within 20 feet of me while threatening me with a knife and you'll get no warning at all before I shoot you dead.

Above is a good example of the sickness of loving guns. It is ultimately all about power.

[Seth]

Come within 20 feet of me while threatening me with a knife and you'll get no warning at all before I shoot you dead.

Above is a good example of the sickness of loving guns. It is ultimately all about power.

Damned right it's about power. It's about my power to defend myself against violent armed criminal aggression and come out the winner. That's my right.

[Audley Strange]

But what if I was just offering to cut you a nice slice of cake?

Then you wouldn't be threatening me. If, however, you suddenly snap into a psychotic episode merely because you have touched a deadly weapon (the knife) and attack me, cake be damned, I'll go right ahead and shoot you. I'd have to worry about that because evidently in Britain, people tend to go suddenly and unexpectedly psychotic and begin murder sprees simply because they have possession of something that can be turned into a deadly weapons. It appears that Brits are so mentally unstable as a nation that it's probably a good thing they ban guns and demand blunt-tipped kitchen knives.

Sheesh.

Brilliant.

[Blind groper]

Damned right it's about power.

Good to see you admit it.

We know all about power and the corruption of power. The power and the emotions related to power, from holding a weapon capable of killing people, are enormously corrupting. It is this emotional obsession that is the basic cause of a major sickness in the USA.

As I said before, I understand this, because I have also handled firearms, including a hand gun. I found the same sickness stealing over me. A bit like getting hooked on a drug. I was able to shake off the loathsome fixation, and return to sanity. Others are still hooked.

[JimC]

Damned right it's about power.

Good to see you admit it.

We know all about power and the corruption of power. The power and the emotions related to power, from holding a weapon capable of killing people, are enormously corrupting. It is this emotional obsession that is the basic cause of a major sickness in the USA.

As I said before, I understand this, because I have also handled firearms, including a hand gun. I found the same sickness stealing over me. A bit like getting hooked on a drug. I was able to shake off the loathsome fixation, and return to sanity. Others are still hooked.

Although I share your general position on guns, I think this might be stretching an analogy just a tad to far...

[FBM]

I wonder what it is about humans or human culture that makes the extremes of any controversial issue so enticing, while the moderate middle is anathema to inhabitants of both? We're a twisted lot, most of us.

[JimC]

A certain amount of twist is good... :twisted:

[Blind groper]

To Jim

This is the difference I see between a firearm that is a legitimate tool and one that is purely for killing people.

If a person is keen on hunting, and owns a hunting rifle, that is fine. The rifle is a tool for achieving the legitimate aim of putting venison on the table, and the pleasure of hunting in the wilderness.

However, a hand gun has no purpose other than killing other people at close range. To have a strong love for such a weapon is understandable only if we see it as a love of power over others. Whether that love of the power of life and death over other people can be seen as addictive is more debatable, but either way, I see it as horribly undesirable.

[JimC]

Yes, it was the addictive element that I thought stretched the analogy a little far...

But undesirable, certainly, especially the paranoid idea of "carrying"

[FBM]

Ignoring the many, many people who enjoy firing handguns at targets as a recreational activity and a sport (see: Olympics).

Killing people at close range is a legitimate use for a handgun as long as it is in self-defense or in defense of a potential victim.

[JimC]

Ignoring the many, many people who enjoy firing handguns at targets as a recreational activity and a sport (see: Olympics).

Killing people at close range is a legitimate use for a handgun as long as it is in self-defense or in defense of a potential victim.

Both BG and I (well, certainly I) have said clearly that there is a place for competitive pistol shooting, and obviously for law enforcement & military use.

The culture clash is all about personal hand-gun use for self-defence by civilians - it simply is something that is not part of most non-US societies...

[FBM]

Ignoring the many, many people who enjoy firing handguns at targets as a recreational activity and a sport (see: Olympics).

Killing people at close range is a legitimate use for a handgun as long as it is in self-defense or in defense of a potential victim.

Both BG and I (well, certainly I) have said clearly that there is a place for competitive pistol shooting, and obviously for law enforcement & military use.

The culture clash is all about personal hand-gun use for self-defence by civilians - it simply is something that is not part of most non-US societies...

Non-US societies don't have to deal with the same dangers inherent in US society, though. Those US citizens alive today inherited a society in which firearm ownership was/is legal, widespread and a deep facet of cultural identity. Legal ownership is rarely a problem. The criminal element is overwhelmingly the problem, and the criminal element should be targeted more strongly for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to firearm possession and use.

[Audley Strange]

I wonder what it is about humans or human culture that makes the extremes of any controversial issue so enticing, while the moderate middle is anathema to inhabitants of both? We're a twisted lot, most of us.

Extremists shout the loudest. Media is lazy. They find those who shout the loudest. Thus the debate is framed by crackpots on either side of whatever issue, because the shout slogans and soundbites rather than reasoned debate. There is only so much space in a paper or time on a news show, so the latter is out the fucking window.

[FBM]

I wonder what it is about humans or human culture that makes the extremes of any controversial issue so enticing, while the moderate middle is anathema to inhabitants of both? We're a twisted lot, most of us.

Extremists shout the loudest. Media is lazy. They find those who shout the loudest. Thus the debate is framed by crackpots on either side of whatever issue, because the shout slogans and soundbites rather than reasoned debate. There is only so much space in a paper or time on a news show, so the latter is out the fucking window.

Bullseye.

Edit:

Also, moderate positions require a lot of dispassionate collecting, evaluating and weighing of empirical data. Not popular with the quick-and-easy, feel-good solution crowd.