UK Wealth Tax Needed; Rich Not Paying Fair Share

[Coito ergo sum]

Britain's tax distribution is less progressive than America's, with the top 1 percent paying about 24 percent of the total income taxes in the U.K. In the United States, the same group pays more than 35 percent. The top 10 percent in Britain pays 55 percent of income taxes, while in America the top 10 percent pays 59 percent.

Britain should have a more progressive tax system.....like the United States....

Deputy Prime Minster Nick Clegg, leader of the Liberal-Democrat Party, has proposed a one-time tax on the wealth (rather than the incomes) of high-net-worth Britons. The details aren’t clear, but Clegg says the country is facing an economic war caused by a prolonged recession, and needs to tax the rich in order to avoid social unrest.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48825978

[Audley Strange]

I agree, double the tax on progressives!

[Audley Strange]

I agree, double the tax on progressives!

[MrJonno]

Consider Clegg just reduced the top level taxes its pretty safe to ignore absolutely anything he says or does.
His party is almost certainly going to cease to exist next election so he is just enjoying the ministerial car

[John_fi_Skye]

As well as midges, we have clegs here. Nasty, opportunist pests they are.

[Blind groper]

This problem is widespread throughout the wealthy west. It is a problem herein NZ, and all over the western world. What is needed is a new tax system that prevents the wealthy people who can afford high priced tax lawyers and accountants from exploiting all those damn loopholes.

I favour a change in taxation, in which businesses are taxed on turnover, not profit. Too many ways of making profit look small on tax account sheets. Turnover is much simpler, and easier to detect when someone tries to get creative with the accounting.

[MrJonno]

It's actually very simple do what Switzerland does a world wide tax on wealth not just income. Doesn't matter if you have property /shares in Switzerland, the Bahamas or Somalia if you live in Switzerland you pay taxes on it.

Income tax just screams dodge me

[Pappa]

It's actually very simple do what Switzerland does a world wide tax on wealth not just income. Doesn't matter if you have property /shares in Switzerland, the Bahamas or Somalia if you live in Switzerland you pay taxes on it.

Income tax just screams dodge me

Then you get the other problem. The rich just de-camp to less taxing pastures.

[Svartalf]

It's actually very simple do what Switzerland does a world wide tax on wealth not just income. Doesn't matter if you have property /shares in Switzerland, the Bahamas or Somalia if you live in Switzerland you pay taxes on it.

Income tax just screams dodge me

Then you get the other problem. The rich just de-camp to less taxing pastures.

I know a bunch of mega wealthy who won't decamp if you tax their real estate and businesses...

[Coito ergo sum]

It's actually very simple do what Switzerland does a world wide tax on wealth not just income. Doesn't matter if you have property /shares in Switzerland, the Bahamas or Somalia if you live in Switzerland you pay taxes on it.

Income tax just screams dodge me

A tax on "wealth" can be dodged as well, by putting the money in non-cash assets and then value the assets low.

And, how many times are you going to tax wealth? If I have a net worth of $1,000,000, say, and half of that is house and personal property, plus two cars, and a nest egg savings account and a retirement account, what am I going to pay? And, how many times?

You can't have a worse incentive to be the ant instead of the grasshopper than a wealth tax. The grasshopper flits away the summer, and then taxes the ant who worked to prepare for the winter.

Once there lived an ant and a grasshopper in a grassy meadow.

All day long the ant would work hard, collecting grains of wheat from the farmer's field far away. She would hurry to the field every morning, as soon as it was light enough to see by, and toil back with a heavy grain of wheat balanced on her head. She would put the grain of wheat carefully away in her larder, and then hurry back to the field for another one. All day long she would work, without stop or rest, scurrying back and forth from the field, collecting the grains of wheat and storing them carefully in her larder.

The grasshopper would look at her and laugh. 'Why do you work so hard, dear ant?' he would say. 'Come, rest awhile, listen to my song. Summer is here, the days are long and bright. Why waste the sunshine in labour and toil?'

The ant would ignore him, and head bent, would just hurry to the field a little faster. This would make the grasshopper laugh even louder. 'What a silly little ant you are!' he would call after her. 'Come, come and dance with me! Forget about work! Enjoy the summer! Live a little!' And the grasshopper would hop away across the meadow, singing and dancing merrily.

Summer faded into autumn, and autumn turned into winter. The sun was hardly seen, and the days were short and grey, the nights long and dark. It became freezing cold, and snow began to fall.

The grasshopper didn't feel like singing any more. He was cold and hungry. He had nowhere to shelter from the snow, and nothing to eat. The meadow and the farmer's field were covered in snow, and there was no food to be had. 'Oh what shall I do? Where shall I go?' wailed the grasshopper. Suddenly he remembered the ant. 'Ah - I shall go to the ant and ask her for food and shelter!' declared the grasshopper, perking up. So off he went to the ant's house and knocked at her door. 'Hello ant!' he cried cheerfully. 'Here I am, to sing for you, as I warm myself by your fire, while you get me some food from that larder of yours!'

The ant looked at the grasshopper and said, 'All summer long I worked hard while you made fun of me, and sang and danced. You should have thought of winter then! Find somewhere else to sing, grasshopper! There is no warmth or food for you here!' And the ant shut the door in the grasshopper's face.

It is wise to worry about tomorrow today.

[Coito ergo sum]

It's actually very simple do what Switzerland does a world wide tax on wealth not just income. Doesn't matter if you have property /shares in Switzerland, the Bahamas or Somalia if you live in Switzerland you pay taxes on it.

Income tax just screams dodge me

Then you get the other problem. The rich just de-camp to less taxing pastures.

I know a bunch of mega wealthy who won't decamp if you tax their real estate and businesses...

the big problem is valuation and what to do when people don't have cash to pay tax on hard assets.

If I have a piece of real estate, it is only worth what a willing buyer is willing to pay for it. Other than that, we can only estimate its value. This can be done via fair market value estimates, but those up to a high degree of variation. But, then what do you do when the IRS says the piece of property you can't sell is worth $200,000 and you don't have cash? Forfeit the property to the government?

I mean -- this wealth tax stuff is a recipe for oppression and destruction of personal livelihoods.

[MrJonno]

In Switzerland the wealth tax is between 0.3 and 1.5% combined with relatively low (compared to the rest of Europe) income tax. desnt seem to stop a lot of rich people hanging out in Switzerland.

Need to ask yourself whether you really want people in living in your country who are only there because they like the tax regime

[Seth]

It's actually very simple do what Switzerland does a world wide tax on wealth not just income. Doesn't matter if you have property /shares in Switzerland, the Bahamas or Somalia if you live in Switzerland you pay taxes on it.

Income tax just screams dodge me

Then you get the other problem. The rich just de-camp to less taxing pastures.

I know a bunch of mega wealthy who won't decamp if you tax their real estate and businesses...

the big problem is valuation and what to do when people don't have cash to pay tax on hard assets.

If I have a piece of real estate, it is only worth what a willing buyer is willing to pay for it. Other than that, we can only estimate its value. This can be done via fair market value estimates, but those up to a high degree of variation. But, then what do you do when the IRS says the piece of property you can't sell is worth $200,000 and you don't have cash? Forfeit the property to the government?

I mean -- this wealth tax stuff is a recipe for oppression and destruction of personal livelihoods.

You're right. That's exactly what the Death Tax is to the family farm. Most farmers (who are elderly, average age of about 60) are "land poor" meaning that they have lots of book value in land, value that's usually artificially inflated by the IRS under "highest and best use" appraisal procedures which base the value of the land on what it COULD be used for, not what it IS being used for when the owner dies. This means, usually, that it's value is assessed as residential land rather than agricultural land, and the tax bill can be many times higher than it should be. That was exactly what happened to me. This forces the heirs to sell the property for residential development just to pay the taxes rather than keeping it in the family as a farm or ranch. The same is true of small businesses and the Death Tax, and would be just as true of a "wealth tax" system.

It's also important to note that taxes have already been paid, several times, on a person's "wealth." It's paid as income tax on the income generated to buy the "wealth", it's paid as property taxes on land, and there are various other taxes (like inventory taxes) that do the same thing.

The real giveaway is the notion that a wealth tax is needed to "prevent social unrest." That's pure, undiluted Marxist rhetoric at work. "Give us your money or we'll kill you." It's the government acting on behalf of the proletarian dependent class mob, which makes it nothing more than a thuggish tyranny of the majority.

[laklak]

Abolish all inheritance and personal income taxes. Cap capital gains and corporate taxes at 15% Establish a national 10% sales tax. Those that consume the most, pay the most. Those that invest pay much less. Shrink government to whatever size is necessary to live within those percentages.

[Seth]

Abolish all inheritance and personal income taxes. Cap capital gains and corporate taxes at 15% Establish a national 10% sales tax. Those that consume the most, pay the most. Those that invest pay much less. Shrink government to whatever size is necessary to live within those percentages.

I agree.

In the last 100 years, regardless of the marginal tax rate, which varied from more than 70 percent to less than 25 percent, the actual revenue collected by the government has remained remarkably close to 19 percent of the annual GDP of the nation, This indicates that the government can get quite fat on 19 percent of our wealth.

I suggest that we cap government expenditures to 15 percent of the prior year's actual GDP, and that this hard ceiling be enshrined in the Constitution by Amendment. Combined with a national sales tax this will keep government adequately funded but also acceptably lean, and it will give government impetus to improve the economy and therefore the GDP because government spending could only increase as the vitality of the economy increases, and it would shrink as the vitality of the economy decreases, making the opportunity for bloat and waste far less available.