The Atheism Plus "movement" -- good, bad, ugly?

[cowiz]

Aaaaaand another one. This time without a notification post: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=111

This should last....

[Robert_S]

At least they had the good sense to stay away from Vbullitin.

[Bella Fortuna]

How long has their site been in existence? They already have their first locked thread: http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=900#p900

Some crazy mansplainin' going on

Every time I see that word...

[Drewish]

I have to wait for the domain registration to go through, but you should watch this site.

[charlou]

Jest fucking raping Christ

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6

Yeah.

Don't conflate social awkwardness with obnoxiousness: Having poor social skills and behaving like a jerk are completely different things. The former can sometimes inadvertently lead to the latter, but the two are not intrinsically linked. Someone can be kind and considerate, but at the same time be poor at picking up social cues and appear shy and awkward in conversation.

Doesn't this describe the fabled "elevator guy" to a "T"?

Doesn't this describe precisely what the FTBSCs did to him?

And btw, has anyone heard from this guy at all? Did he even ever exist, and if so, was he actually a member/participant of the conference in question?

Hello Taqiyya Mockingbird (nice name)

This was posted to YouTube a few weeks ago .. Apparently there's audio on this ... though I haven't been able to hear it, others can. Seems to be considered legit by many ...

[Bella Fortuna]

I have to wait for the domain registration to go through, but you should watch this site.

Typo and everything?

[Drewish]

I have to wait for the domain registration to go through, but you should watch this site.

Typo and everything?

atheismminus was already taken by a site just waiting to sell it. This looks nicer anyways.

[surreptitious57]

In the video he says that he saw Rebecca at the conference and was taken by her presenting ability and wanted to get to speak to her but being shy could not muster the courage. Eventually by the end of the night he had a few and managed to catch her at the elevator and the rest you know. I thought that it was genuine too but now realise that there are others also.

I must say that I am not at all surprised that the banning has started at Atheism Plus. Though I did not think that it would start this early. I shall be going over there now to see what exactly they have done. There are a few of us from this side over there so we can balance it out at the moment but if the two sister sites get members in big time, then it may be hard to be there, but time will tell so I am still optimistic at the moment as it is early days. I can see why they want usernames unchanged but I have nothing to hide so use mine anyway. If they find out the other sites I am on they might persuade me to leave! But one day at a time, one day at a time.

[Robert_S]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6#p17

Don't import hostility to the forum: If a user has behaved badly elsewhere, but posts only sensible comments here, these comments should not be greeted with hostility. As with carrying arguments between threads, importing hostility is disruptive, and looks dreadful to outsiders.

[DaveDodo007]

Jest fucking raping Christ

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6

Yeah.

Don't conflate social awkwardness with obnoxiousness: Having poor social skills and behaving like a jerk are completely different things. The former can sometimes inadvertently lead to the latter, but the two are not intrinsically linked. Someone can be kind and considerate, but at the same time be poor at picking up social cues and appear shy and awkward in conversation.

Doesn't this describe the fabled "elevator guy" to a "T"?

Doesn't this describe precisely what the FTBSCs did to him?

And btw, has anyone heard from this guy at all? Did he even ever exist, and if so, was he actually a member/participant of the conference in question?

Hello Taqiyya Mockingbird (nice name)

This was posted to YouTube a few weeks ago .. Apparently there's audio on this ... though I haven't been able to hear it, others can. Seems to be considered legit by many ...

I'm calling bullshit on this, he just choose to come out now??? If he existed then he is the hide and seek champion in the whole world.

[A Hermit]

[

They've come out and said it. They're calling it "our" movement (meaning their movement), claiming the right to banish others from it, and they are looking to replace the "New Atheists" with a "New New Atheist" (see the New Statesman article that says exactly that). It is not a conspiracy. They say it.

Prove it. Let's see the actual quotes, not your biased interpretations...

That's nonsense. What happens is, if you go over there and post a polite, but contrary, position, stating, for example, you don't agree that Surly Amy should get a policy that bans people from selling "fake jewelry" or that wearing "I am not a skepchick" t-shirts should be banned, either --- you get banned from Freethoughtblogs. Greta Christina did exactly that to me. I did not "troll" -- I merely chimed in and I did not call anyone names, I did not even say they were wrong -- I was careful to state "In my view..." and then provided reasoning. I was also told to fuck off. In fact, not only was I banned by here -- she had actually responded to my post telling me that if that was my view -- if I thought that the t-shirt was not harassment, etc. - then I was not welcome there. I posted one final response, indicating that I would honor her request and leave and not return. She said she would help me flounce, and stated I was banned.

Prove it. Let's see some evidence.

Probably no worse than the death threats that Richard Dawkins gets. Everyone thought those were funny, though, cuz he's an old white guy....

Who thought they were funny? Not me. And you know what? I didn't see people telling him to shut up and not talk about it, or demanding that the prove there were REALLY threats being made or suggesting he was imagining it, or that he was asking for it or that he was being hysterical for mentioning it...

Look -- I didn't say that someone who says that to her was not out of line. I said that "fake jewelry" and "I am not a skepchick" t-shirts are not sexual harassment.

Nobody ever said they were sexual harassment. They were part of an organized campaign of exclusion and hostility directed at Amy all weekend. People were bragging about it on twitter...

But, you get banned over there if you try to explain that the woman wearing the t-shirt had every right to do so.

Prove it. Just claiming you were treated badly isn't enough right? Let's apply the same standards here that the harassment deniers use...

And nobody has said that she didn't have the right to wear the shirt. But having the right to do something and being right to do it are not the same thing. Fred Phelps has every right to parade around with his "God Hates Fags" signs too but that doesn't mean I have to agree with him, does it?

Only if you don't disagree or criticize. Go there and see. I have.

Prove it...

Who am I? Who are they to tell ME and EVERYONE ELSE what they "can or can't do?"

They aren't. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to join anything or do anything.

Likewise, if they don't like TAM, they can not go - they don't have to bitch and moan about how DJ Grothe runs it, now do they?

Well guess what. they won't be going anymore. And they wont be fundraising for TAM anymore, or recruiting people to attend, or publicizing it like they have for so many years. See, you treat people like shit and they lose interest in working for your organization...

Why is it that you grant them the privilege to push for what they want, but the rest of us have no such right?

Of course you have the right, just don't be such a crybaby when people disagree with you. Seriously man, what the fuck are you whining about?

For the same reason that Evangelical Christians piss people off. They're not content with having their own view, and their own community. They aren't satisfied until everyone else believes it too, and we can't get away from it, because they're shoving it in the faces of every atheist group out their.

So what should they do? Are you telling them to shut up and go away? They shouldn't talk about sexual harassment or gay rights or political issues? You're very concerned about your right to express your opinion; what about their right to express their opinions?

I don't get pissed off at Evangelical Christians for exercising their right to speak; I get pissed at the substance of their speech.

Now the substance of the Atheist+ idea is that some of us aren't content with the negative identity of just not believing in God. We have some positive goals as well. Like treating women with respect and dignity, like standing up for the rights of minorities, like standing up against racism and bigotry, like fighting for economic justice.

You don't have to agree with those goals. Even if you do agree you don't have to raise a finger to help. And you don't have to spend so much time and energy whining about it either...

[JimC]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6#p17

Don't import hostility to the forum: If a user has behaved badly elsewhere, but posts only sensible comments here, these comments should not be greeted with hostility. As with carrying arguments between threads, importing hostility is disruptive, and looks dreadful to outsiders.

So, they'd actually welcome Cowiz!



(for about 5 fucking seconds... )

[Robert_S]

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6#p17

Don't import hostility to the forum: If a user has behaved badly elsewhere, but posts only sensible comments here, these comments should not be greeted with hostility. As with carrying arguments between threads, importing hostility is disruptive, and looks dreadful to outsiders.

So, they'd actually welcome Cowiz!



(for about 5 fucking seconds... )

Hear that Cowiz? Sounds like a challenge to me!

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

Jest fucking raping Christ

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6

Yeah.

Don't conflate social awkwardness with obnoxiousness: Having poor social skills and behaving like a jerk are completely different things. The former can sometimes inadvertently lead to the latter, but the two are not intrinsically linked. Someone can be kind and considerate, but at the same time be poor at picking up social cues and appear shy and awkward in conversation.

Doesn't this describe the fabled "elevator guy" to a "T"?

Doesn't this describe precisely what the FTBSCs did to him?

And btw, has anyone heard from this guy at all? Did he even ever exist, and if so, was he actually a member/participant of the conference in question?

Hello Taqiyya Mockingbird (nice name)

Thank you. It's sort of a slam between the obvious, and the name of a local band, and a slam on the islamic doctrine of lying to make their religion out to be peaceful, called "taqiyya and kitman".

This was posted to YouTube a few weeks ago .. Apparently there's audio on this ... though I haven't been able to hear it, others can. Seems to be considered legit by many ...

There is indeed audio. I have transcribed it, to the best of my ability:


[quote="Elevator Guy" in YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9DWGcFEw2s"]
.

"I think it's about time I came out to the world. I am the "elevator guy". I was at the atheist conference and I, uh, was in the bar afterwards. I'm really shy and I wasn't really, um, involved in the conversation, I was kind of lurking in the background, you know, listening to everyone else, and this girl was there, uh, her name was Rebecca, and she was such an eloquent speaker and I was just, like, thinking, you know, how could I develop a repoire with her, how could I, maybe, like, get someone like this in my life, and, you know, for once I thought "I'm going to go up there and do something, and try to make it happen". And so I'm really shy. I kept thinking about approaching her in the bar, I had a few drinks, by the end of the night I was...kind of drunk, probably more drunk than I should be, and I finally built up the nerve to go talk to her, and she was leaving. I followed her into the elevator and I said, "I think you are interesting, would you like to come and have coffee with me?"
She kinda gave me this look of disgust, and I...pushed the floor button and we kind of awkwardly rode the elevator together and I got off, kind of left with my tail between my legs, it was really embarrassing and awkward and I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause this whole big controversy.
You can't blame a guy for trying, OK, give me a break, I'm sorry, Rebecca. I'm sorry I did that."[/quote]


He sounds agonized. His tone in his last sentence seems to also seems to reflect a lot of frustration as well. If this is the guy, he seems sincere to me. I imagine that time will tell.

[hadespussercats]

It's interesting-- one of the rules is something to the effect of "Don't dismiss a severe problem by conflating it with a less severe problem." Then went on to use as an example FGM versus male circumcision.

Apparently they've already decided the latter isn't severe. I think there are many progressively-minded atheists who would disagree with that assessment. Apparently the site owners consider it beyond reproach.

I was circumcised and I'm not really all that happy about it, but they left the glans. So, I consider it orders of magnitude less severe than FGM.

See, I happen to think it generally isn't as severe, too. But I don't think my opinion is the clincher. It's a fraught subject. Jeez, why do they want to talk to each other if they already agree on everything?