Anders Breivik - Court Rules Him Sane.

[MrJonno]

A death can be violent or non-violent.

Yes but causing a death (including your own) can never be non-violent

[Coito ergo sum]

A death can be violent or non-violent.

Yes but causing a death (including your own) can never be non-violent

Of course it can. Just like imprisoning someone can be violent or non-violent.

[Sælir]

It's not at all clear that prison is more humane than the stocks, depending on the circumstances. It's not even at all clear that life without the possibility of parole, in a 6 x 10 cell, with one hour or daylight per day, max, pacing back and forth in a cage, is more humane than lethal injection. It's certainly not "objectively" so. We're just all used to prison as default punishment.

Hope there aren't many prisons like that left, life without parole is very very rare outside the US.

?????
Pssst.... the red countries all still use life imprisonment...

I have to tell you though that this map is just wrong. Maybe most (definitely not all) of the red countries are allowed to sentence to live imprisonment but many of them don't ever use them. In the very few cases someone is sentenced to life imprisonment in Denmark they don't sit it out for life. The longest anyone has stayed in prison there is 33 years.
We don't use it in Iceland at all but that is still marked red. (And we can't use it either, it's not in our law).

Wrong map is wrong.

[mistermack]

The map is meaningless anyway, unless you combine it with those who have the death sentence.

It could well be that countries that don't show up as having life imprisonment, just kill em instead.

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, someone like Breivik should get life in prison without the possibility of parole, because under no circumstances should he be walking around, working, laughing, enjoying himself, or hanging out at home. Never. In my view, anyway, there is nothing that he can do, no test he can take, no evaluation that he could undergo, that would make him a decent or acceptable member of society.

Others may disagree, but I would never work with him. I would never want to live near him. And, sure as fuck, I would never want to be contributing tax dollars for his maintenance in the free world. It's bad enough to have to pay for a prison for him.

My theory on criminal punishment is that if we would stop imprisoning nonviolent offenders -- like drug dealers and such -- we would be able to properly incarcerate all the violent folks. We have too many crimes that entail jail time. They should house arrest nonviolent criminals and put chips in them that allow them to be tracked and monitored.

[MrJonno]

Well, someone like Breivik should get life in prison without the possibility of parole, because under no circumstances should he be walking around, working, laughing, enjoying himself, or hanging out at home. Never. In my view, anyway, there is nothing that he can do, no test he can take, no evaluation that he could undergo, that would make him a decent or acceptable member of society.

Others may disagree, but I would never work with him. I would never want to live near him. And, sure as fuck, I would never want to be contributing tax dollars for his maintenance in the free world. It's bad enough to have to pay for a prison for him.

My theory on criminal punishment is that if we would stop imprisoning nonviolent offenders -- like drug dealers and such -- we would be able to properly incarcerate all the violent folks. We have too many crimes that entail jail time. They should house arrest nonviolent criminals and put chips in them that allow them to be tracked and monitored.

I can't think of any reason to ever grant him parole but doesn't mean its such a terrible idea to see what he has to say in 20 years. Maybe him see the light come up with a cure for cancer from his prison cell I don't know

[mistermack]

It seems to be a confused message coming from the media.
There is a limit on sentences of 21 years, but on the news yesterday, they said that it's unlikely that he would ever be released, because he would almost certainly be judged too dangerous to release.

They didn't expand on the legal mechanism for that, maybe they just made it up, or maybe there is a panel that has to make a judgement that it's safe to release certain prisoners. If there is any mechanism at all, you would think that it would be used in his case. Mind you, you can never predict what some psychologist will say, in 21 years time.

[Seth]

I wonder by what standard are we measuring sanity when we can pronounce an individual who kills dozens of people to promote a extremist political ideology sane.

By that metric, the whole of Islam is insane. That's bad because that means we can't kill Islamist radicals who kill dozens (or hundreds) of people, we have to "treat" their mental illness.

I'd rather just kill them. Saves time and money.

[Seth]

Anders Breivik deserves the death penalty.

....and, I'm against the death penalty.

Not really about what he deserves, its about whats best for society as a whole and the state going around killing defenceless (but obviously very evil) people is not considered to be best for society.

Right. The State, by and large, goes around killing defenseless obviously innocent people who happen to obstruct the state's political aspirations while putting the obviously evil people in charge.

[Audley Strange]

I wonder by what standard are we measuring sanity when we can pronounce an individual who kills dozens of people to promote a extremist political ideology sane.

By that metric, the whole of Islam is insane. That's bad because that means we can't kill Islamist radicals who kill dozens (or hundreds) of people, we have to "treat" their mental illness.

I'd rather just kill them. Saves time and money.

Not just Islam, but I think you've accidently hit on what might be the answer. Oh yeah and physician heal thyself and all that.

[Warren Dew]

He was sentenced to 21 years (which is the maximum) but then it can be prolonged 5 years at a time after that.
Isn't that so, Norwegians?

That's my understanding too. It's stiffer than a lot of "life sentences" in the U.S., since in the U.S., there's usually an opportunity for parole before the end of the sentence, and the sentence cannot be extended.

[Warren Dew]

He's 33 years old. He'll get out at 54, and have 30 or so years to enjoy himself.

Perhaps. Or perhaps after being a model prisoner for 21 years and quietly enjoying himself on the outside for a few more years until people forget about him, he'll arrange to kill 77 more people.

[Seth]

He's 33 years old. He'll get out at 54, and have 30 or so years to enjoy himself.

Perhaps. Or perhaps after being a model prisoner for 21 years and quietly enjoying himself on the outside for a few more years until people forget about him, he'll arrange to kill 77 more people.

Well, whatever else one may think about him, he does have the courage of his convictions, which is a lot more than I can say for most other people, most of whom are just moral drifters a la Dante.

[Seabass]

He's 33 years old. He'll get out at 54, and have 30 or so years to enjoy himself.

Perhaps. Or perhaps after being a model prisoner for 21 years and quietly enjoying himself on the outside for a few more years until people forget about him, he'll arrange to kill 77 more people.

Well, whatever else one may think about him, he does have the courage of his convictions, which is a lot more than I can say for most other people, most of whom are just moral drifters a la Dante.

"Courage" isn't a word I would use to describe a man who shot up a bunch of innocent children.

[hadespussercats]

I wonder by what standard are we measuring sanity when we can pronounce an individual who kills dozens of people to promote a extremist political ideology sane.

I realize I'm coming late to this, and I'm unsure of Norway's take, but in the US criminal insanity describes people who either cannot distinguish between right and wrong (contrast with someone who knows they're breaking the law but chooses to do so anyway), or people who have an uncontrollable compulsion to do something, and can't stop themselves.

You can still be quite insane by many clinical standards without meeting those two.