Bang, Bang, Yer Dead!

[Wumbologist]

Oh well, just lets wait for the next crazy nutter, allowed by your laws to own military style assault rifles lets loose in some crowded mall or high school somewhere, and see what the death count is this time...

Probably wont have to wait very long...

Can't have the omelette of freedom without breaking eggs, I guess...

What's so special about "military style"? My Mini-14 accepts detachable magazines including my 90 round drum. It can be fitted with a folding stock with a pistol grip. It has a flash suppressor and a bayonet mount, and has the shortest legally permissible barrel... but it's not "military style" like an AR-15.

[JimC]

Oh well, just lets wait for the next crazy nutter, allowed by your laws to own military style assault rifles lets loose in some crowded mall or high school somewhere, and see what the death count is this time...

Probably wont have to wait very long...

Can't have the omelette of freedom without breaking eggs, I guess...

What's so special about "military style"? My Mini-14 accepts detachable magazines including my 90 round drum. It can be fitted with a folding stock with a pistol grip. It has a flash suppressor and a bayonet mount, and has the shortest legally permissible barrel... but it's not "military style" like an AR-15.

In my view, no civilian in any civilised society ought to able to own something like that. Knowing you, I'm certain you're not going to go on a rampage, but it just takes one nutter in possession of something like that to cause havoc...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Oh well, just lets wait for the next crazy nutter, allowed by your laws to own military style assault rifles lets loose in some crowded mall or high school somewhere, and see what the death count is this time...

Probably wont have to wait very long...

Can't have the omelette of freedom without breaking eggs, I guess...

What's so special about "military style"? My Mini-14 accepts detachable magazines including my 90 round drum. It can be fitted with a folding stock with a pistol grip. It has a flash suppressor and a bayonet mount, and has the shortest legally permissible barrel... but it's not "military style" like an AR-15.

In my view, no civilian in any civilised society ought to able to own something like that. Knowing you, I'm certain you're not going to go on a rampage, but it just takes one nutter in possession of something like that to cause havoc...

...in Norway.

[Wumbologist]

Oh well, just lets wait for the next crazy nutter, allowed by your laws to own military style assault rifles lets loose in some crowded mall or high school somewhere, and see what the death count is this time...

Probably wont have to wait very long...

Can't have the omelette of freedom without breaking eggs, I guess...

What's so special about "military style"? My Mini-14 accepts detachable magazines including my 90 round drum. It can be fitted with a folding stock with a pistol grip. It has a flash suppressor and a bayonet mount, and has the shortest legally permissible barrel... but it's not "military style" like an AR-15.

In my view, no civilian in any civilised society ought to able to own something like that. Knowing you, I'm certain you're not going to go on a rampage, but it just takes one nutter in possession of something like that to cause havoc...

And for what reason? Most of the features I listed are more cosmetic/convenient in nature than anything that will make the gun any more "deadly", which is my entire point. A folding/collapsible stock makes sense for ease of carrying and storage but doesn't really do a lot to make a rifle concealable, it's still too big for that. The pistol grip is more comfortable for some, personally I actually prefer a conventional stock, but neither one makes a gun more "deadly" than a similar gun without. Flash suppressors serve the purpose of keeping the muzzle flash from blinding the user, especially at night. If you've got coyotes after your livestock late at night, for example, it makes sense to be able to see after your first shot. It doesn't make it harder to tell where shots are coming from or any such nonsense. The bayonet mount... well, I think you'll be hard pressed to find a whole lot of examples of "bayonet crime" in the last century. One MIGHT argue that a shorter barrel makes a gun more maneuverable for close-quarters use, but within legal limits it's not a huge, significant difference from a longer one.

The only thing one might make an argument for is high-capacity magazines, but it's pretty much an unenforceable thing to ban, especially with the advent of 3D printing. You would have to ban anything with a detachable magazine at all to prevent the use of high-capacity magazines, which essentially bans a massive portion of, if not the majority of firearms in the United States. Not to mention you'd be hindering legitimate, law-abiding gun owners from using their firearms to the fullest. If I've got to fend off a home invader or three, I'd rather have 15 rounds in my pistol than 10, I'd rather have 30 rounds in my rifle than 5. Will I need to use them all? Hopefully not! But I'd rather have a few too many than one too few, should the occasion to use any at all arise.

So for the most part, "military-style" boils down to cosmetic features. Banning certain guns because they look scary isn't going to save anyone's life.

[Wumbologist]

...in Norway.

He sure had a goofy setup on that Mini-14 of his.

[Wumbologist]

Oh yeah, you're bad.

I'm a bad mamma-jamma.

[Woodbutcher]

Yeah, and most people get their information on the US from TV.

Yep, and sensationalism sells. Disasters are looked for. Nothing is unbiased.

Canada is all tundra. I seed it on tb.

Youbet! A view from my window this morning:

[JimC]

I would simply have a blanket ban on all semi-automatic rifles and hand guns; pretty well the situation that exists in Oz, with a few carefully regulated exceptions. (and obviously military and some specialised law-enforcement roles)

Nothing to do with whether they look scary, simply that they have no other real use than killing people. Most hunters use bolt action rifles, competition shooting likewise...

I wonder what other US forum members think - generally, the ones that have posted in this thread so far are gun owners. Without being sure of the numbers, I suspect there would be a significant number of Americans who would advocate tighter gun laws (not that I think they have any hope of achieving such a goal; alea jacta est...)

[Wumbologist]

I would simply have a blanket ban on all semi-automatic rifles and hand guns; pretty well the situation that exists in Oz, with a few carefully regulated exceptions. (and obviously military and some specialised law-enforcement roles)

Guess it's fortunate for me that you're not making such policy decisions for the US, I wouldn't have any of my collection left.

[JimC]

I would simply have a blanket ban on all semi-automatic rifles and hand guns; pretty well the situation that exists in Oz, with a few carefully regulated exceptions. (and obviously military and some specialised law-enforcement roles)

Guess it's fortunate for me that you're not making such policy decisions for the US, I wouldn't have any of my collection left.

As I have said repeatedly, I'm well aware that I have no influence on policy decisions in the US - doesn't stop me having an opinion...

What about a situation where a majority of US citizens were to vote for tighter gun control - would you accept the democratic decision?

[Kristie]

I would simply have a blanket ban on all semi-automatic rifles and hand guns; pretty well the situation that exists in Oz, with a few carefully regulated exceptions. (and obviously military and some specialised law-enforcement roles)

Nothing to do with whether they look scary, simply that they have no other real use than killing people. Most hunters use bolt action rifles, competition shooting likewise...

I wonder what other US forum members think - generally, the ones that have posted in this thread so far are gun owners. Without being sure of the numbers, I suspect there would be a significant number of Americans who would advocate tighter gun laws (not that I think they have any hope of achieving such a goal; alea jacta est...)

This US forum member is in total agreement with you.

[Wumbologist]

What about a situation where a majority of US citizens were to vote for tighter gun control - would you accept the democratic decision?

Honestly, I don't know what I would do. It would depend on the kind of "tighter gun control" I suppose, but any democratic decision that strips me of a right that I previously had and exercised responsibly and safely would not be something I would find at all "acceptable".

[FBM]

Fuck it, never mind. There will be no reasonable middle ground in this debate, looks like.

This your first gun debate?

You obviously havent bothered to read anything I've written, either. My first gun debate? This week, yes. But I get your point. It was an exercise in futility, considering the liklihood of engaging someone who is simultaneously objective, well-informed and rational about it. I'll just go back to doing something more constructive and that has more probability of a desirable outcome, like stabbing myself in the eye with an ice pick. Bang bang.

I'm just kiddin' around, dude.

I got sucked in to this discussion too, but then I came to my senses and beelined for the exit.

Which is what I'm doing now.

[JimC]

I would simply have a blanket ban on all semi-automatic rifles and hand guns; pretty well the situation that exists in Oz, with a few carefully regulated exceptions. (and obviously military and some specialised law-enforcement roles)

Nothing to do with whether they look scary, simply that they have no other real use than killing people. Most hunters use bolt action rifles, competition shooting likewise...

I wonder what other US forum members think - generally, the ones that have posted in this thread so far are gun owners. Without being sure of the numbers, I suspect there would be a significant number of Americans who would advocate tighter gun laws (not that I think they have any hope of achieving such a goal; alea jacta est...)

This US forum member is in total agreement with you.

[JimC]

Interesting example in the sate of Victoria, where I live. Police have been putting in some serious spadework to combat the illegal activities (usually involving drugs) of various motorcycle gangs. Recently, they raided many homes of gang members, confiscating every gun they found. Some were illegal and unregistered, but many were both legal and registered (bolt action rifles, mainly), and many of the owners had valid shooter's licenses. There is a clause in the license about someone being a "fit and proper person", normally a formality...

Victoria Police have decided that being a member of a bikie gang makes you not a "fit and proper person"...

Given the recent spate of assaults and shootings involving gang members, I'm inclined to agree with them. They'll have to resort to knuckle-dusters and bike chains like the old days...