Bang, Bang, Yer Dead!

[Jason]

A hand gun is a tool for murder because that is what is is designed for. A hand gun is a very poor weapon for hunting or killing vermin. It is designed to be a weapon that is portable, and concealable, and lethal at close range. The only targets for such a weapon are humans, and hence it is a tool for murder. There are still legal and moral uses for such a weapon, but not in the hands of civilians. Even self defense is better served with a rifle or shotgun, because they are more accurate.

Yes, handguns are designed to be effective tools at short range. Short range is precisely where self-defence situations warranting lethal force usually occur. So, following your argument: If your objective is simply to kill someone then you are better served by an assault weapon or rifle. If your objective is self-preservation then you are better served by a tactical shotgun. So, if we're sticking to the logic of 'tool best suited to the job', then 'handguns for murder' doesn't make sense unless you define every killing of a human to be 'murder' which only serves to cheapen the actual crime and doesn't support your point beyond the emotive rise it may cause.

Handguns are suited to criminals desires because of their concealability primarily. They are suited to police forces and self-defence because of their ease of carry (law abiding citizens and police officers usually do not go about with the primary intent of being 'cocked and ready for action'), concealed or not. Yes, they are designed primarily for use against people, but that doesn't make them 'tools for murder' any more than an assault rifle on that basis. I don't see any basis for this claim of 'tool for murder' in your argument, much less that persons who find handguns 'fun' in anyway are actually fantasizing about murder.

[Blind groper]

Handguns are not designed for murder.
Murder is an emotive and misleading term.

What is the definition of murder? Hand guns are most definitely tools for killing humans. They have no other practical purpose. So when does killing a human not become murder?

And please don't warble on about self defense. I have already pointed out that carrying a hand gun increases your risk - making it the opposite of self defense.

[Gallstones]

Gallstones, you're one hell of a threatening lady.

I was upset that my parents gave me siblings instead of a pony.

[Ian]

Handguns are not designed for murder.
Murder is an emotive and misleading term.

What is the definition of murder? Hand guns are most definitely tools for killing humans. They have no other practical purpose. So when does killing a human not become murder?

And please don't warble on about self defense. I have already pointed out that carrying a hand gun increases your risk - making it the opposite of self defense.

I disagree. When a policeman fires his weapon, for example, it's to stop a suspect from doing something that is threatening. That's the practical purpose. If the suspect dies in the process, that is incidental, not the goal.

I agree that carrying one around increases your risk. But that's no reason to support any policy which would make it illegal to own one at all, in case that's something you've said before. I own one but do not carry it or leave it out where anyone but me or my wife could get it.

[Jason]

I have already pointed out that carrying a hand gun increases your risk - making it the opposite of self defense.

And many of us shot those claims full of holes.

[Gallstones]

Murder is the unlawful killing of a human done with intent and premeditation.

Humans can be killed lawfully, even with a handgun and that isn't murder.

So handguns are not designed to murder. They are designed to send a small, metal projectile at high speed into a desired direction. They can be used to kill. They can be used to blow the shit out of jugs of colored water too.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

B.G. you have a personal definition of "practical purpose" that is constructed specifically to exclude side arms. It's starting to make you look pretty narrow-minded.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

[Gallstones]

About this time last year the veterinarian shot and killed a black bear with a handgun. I believe he carries a .45.
The bear was charging him.

Carrying a big ass hunting rifle when you go fishing or hiking or backpacking is less wieldy than a handgun. Rifles are heavy.

[Blind groper]

B.G. you have a personal definition of "practical purpose" that is constructed specifically to exclude side arms. It's starting to make you look pretty narrow-minded.

As I said earlier, my focus on hand guns is a result of hard data. Hand guns are the problem because they are the ones used for homicide and for suicide in the majority of cases. The data is clear cut.

On hand guns for protecting against bears, the US Wild life Service has already made a clear cut statement opposing hand guns for that purpose, and stating that proper bear spray should be carried, if such a risk is there. Apparently there have already been enough cases of bears opposed by hand guns and bears opposed by bear spray to show that bear spray results in fewer human deaths.
http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/bear-spray2.htm

One of the flaws in arguments for hand guns for self defense is the assumption that there is no alternative. Wrong. There are several alternatives. Bear spray against bears. Pepper spray and personal alarms to defend against muggers. Nothing is perfect, of course. A hand gun results in the death of its possessor rather too often, while a personal alarm may not be sufficient to fend off a mugger. But imperfect though they are, alternatives are less harmful overall than hand guns, which kill 20,000 people each year.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Somehow, I can't see muggers switching to bear spray or rape alarms any time soon.

Edit-

alternatives are less harmful overall than hand guns, which kill 20,000 people each year.

There you go blaming inanimate objects again.
By the logic you're using, we should probably ban dessert spoons too - how many people do they kill/harm each year through obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Your hyperfocus, you mean.

[Blind groper]

There you go blaming inanimate objects again.

Perhaps. But it is nevertheless true. I appreciate that hand guns in the hands of good law abiding citizens are unlikely to be used for murder. However, making hand guns readily available for law abiding citizens inevitably makes them readily available for the evil assholes who commit the murders.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

There you go blaming inanimate objects again.

Perhaps. But it is nevertheless true. I appreciate that hand guns in the hands of good law abiding citizens are unlikely to be used for murder. However, making hand guns readily available for law abiding citizens inevitably makes them readily available for the evil assholes who commit the murders.

That's still not the gun's fault.

[Blind groper]

That's still not the gun's fault.

In practical terms, what does that matter?