Scottish Catholics walk away from talks r.e. gay marriage

[Rum]

Much as I find Salmond (the Scots first minister) a political slug of the first order I have to give his government credit for sticking to their guns on this issue. The Catholic Church in Scotland is refusing to participate further in discussions - basically because they can't impose their own prejudices and reverse the Scots' decision to support gay marriage. In March Cardinal O'Brien called the idea a "grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right".

This is all a 'good thing' of course. However sectarianism is never far under the surface in urban Scotland and this may not go as straightforwardly as one might imagine.

The full story here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-19305232

[Twoflower]

I expect riots will happen over this at the next football game.

[tattuchu]

I like Scott-land of course. How could I not? So certainly nothing against this fair country or its wonderful inhabitants. It's just I had no idea Scotland was so progressive

[Rum]

Salmond is trying to position Scotland as looking towards Scandinavia which tends to be very progressive of course. A lot of their policies are geared that way and if they win the referendum and break the Union they will make very close links indeed.

[Brian Peacock]

Cardinal Keith O'Brien thinks that the granting of civil and legal equality to all is a dangerous social experiment, maliciously implemented by God-hating secularists hell-bent on destroying the fabric of society to further the work of Satan. Really, there's no pleasing some people.

[Rum]

A picky bugger indeed.

[klr]

I share Rum's grudging respect for Salmond on this one, although Salmond has doubtless concluded that the majority of Scottish people don't really give a damn about "Church teaching" on this or just about any matter. It's a popular position to take, as well as being the correct one.

[Svartalf]

I expect riots will happen over this at the next football game.

Zombie rangers going to try and eat the Celtic?

[Svartalf]

Cardinal Keith O'Brien thinks that the granting of civil and legal equality to all is a dangerous social experiment, maliciously implemented by God-hating secularists hell-bent on destroying the fabric of society to further the work of Satan. Really, there's no pleasing some people.

and he's right... just look what happens when you give voting rights to yahoos... Maggie Thatcher and Cameron, that's what happens. Or, and Red Ken as Lord Mayor of the Great Wart.

[Rum]

Great Wart? London is a great city as cities go!

I actually prefer Paris as a city. A pity it isn't better looked after though.

[John_fi_Skye]

It's a slightly tricky one for the SNP, in the sense that in some constituencies there are large numbers of people whose families hail from the Catholic tradition, and whether each individual is a practising Catholic or not there tends to be a respect for the values of the church and what Il Duce Papa says. Sitting MSPs in such constituencies therefore often seem very chary of doing anything which might run counter to Catholic dogma. The thing that maybe makes it just a wee bit less tricky for the SNP is that such constituencies tend to vote Labour.

[John_fi_Skye]

By the way, the annual number of Humanist weddings in Scotland has now overtaken the number of Catholic ones, and Humanist weddings are now the third-most-popular type, after registry office and Church of Scotland. Humanist celebrants (of whom I'm one) can already conduct non-legal ceremonies involving same-sex couples, so if and when the legislation does move forward we'll be all ready.

Lots of people I know now think that the Catholic Church exerts disproportionate influence over our society. I agree, and for that reason I'm pleased about the line the SNP are taking.

[klr]

By the way, the annual number of Humanist weddings in Scotland has now overtaken the number of Catholic ones, and Humanist weddings are now the third-most-popular type, after registry office and Church of Scotland. Humanist celebrants (of whom I'm one) can already conduct non-legal ceremonies involving same-sex couples, so if and when the legislation does move forward we'll be all ready.

Lots of people I know now think that the Catholic Church exerts disproportionate influence over our society. I agree, and for that reason I'm pleased about the line the SNP are taking.

Presumably, most of the registry office weddings involve couples who don't really want any religious trappings for one reason or another, so I count those in "our" camp as well.

[Svartalf]

It's a slightly tricky one for the SNP, in the sense that in some constituencies there are large numbers of people whose families hail from the Catholic tradition, and whether each individual is a practising Catholic or not there tends to be a respect for the values of the church and what Il Duce Papa says. Sitting MSPs in such constituencies therefore often seem very chary of doing anything which might run counter to Catholic dogma. The thing that maybe makes it just a wee bit less tricky for the SNP is that such constituencies tend to vote Labour.

I'd say that 99% of Scottish families not having come from the Raj in the last 2 centuries or so come from the Catholic tradition, if you check what religion their ancestors were 500 years ago.

[John_fi_Skye]

It's a slightly tricky one for the SNP, in the sense that in some constituencies there are large numbers of people whose families hail from the Catholic tradition, and whether each individual is a practising Catholic or not there tends to be a respect for the values of the church and what Il Duce Papa says. Sitting MSPs in such constituencies therefore often seem very chary of doing anything which might run counter to Catholic dogma. The thing that maybe makes it just a wee bit less tricky for the SNP is that such constituencies tend to vote Labour.

I'd say that 99% of Scottish families not having come from the Raj in the last 2 centuries or so come from the Catholic tradition, if you check what religion their ancestors were 500 years ago.

Yes - sorry - what I mean is that in these constituencies there are a lot of people who're practising Catholics, and a lot of people who're lapsed Catholics, and a lot of people who're close relatives (eg children) of practising Catholics.