You guys and your guns...

[Twoflower]

Jim, I think most of our more right wing Merkin members already occupy the position that every American war was a just war.

90% of my family is right wing and none of them think Iraq was a just war, and they all agree that still being in Afghanistan is pretty fucking stupid. I've never asked them about previous wars, as we don't talk about politics etc. all that much.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If the US had gone isolationist in the 50s, you may well be speaking Russian now...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_REFORGER

The US would never have let such a lucrative export market as W. Europe fall to the Reds....

True, and the standard of living in Western Europe benefited from a safer environment and loads of US money.

[Clinton Huxley]

Jim, I think most of our more right wing Merkin members already occupy the position that every American war was a just war.

90% of my family is right wing and none of them think Iraq was a just war, and they all agree that still being in Afghanistan is pretty fucking stupid. I've never asked them about previous wars, as we don't talk about politics etc. all that much.

Are they members of this forum?

[JimC]

Jim, I think most of our more right wing Merkin members already occupy the position that every American war was a just war.

90% of my family is right wing and none of them think Iraq was a just war, and they all agree that still being in Afghanistan is pretty fucking stupid. I've never asked them about previous wars, as we don't talk about politics etc. all that much.

That is an example of the nuances of reality that disappear when debate becomes polarised...

[mistermack]

True, we didn't get a welcome home. As for the rest, you don't matter, not at all.

I don't want to matter.
Not in the way that you do.

[Twoflower]

Jim, I think most of our more right wing Merkin members already occupy the position that every American war was a just war.

90% of my family is right wing and none of them think Iraq was a just war, and they all agree that still being in Afghanistan is pretty fucking stupid. I've never asked them about previous wars, as we don't talk about politics etc. all that much.

Are they members of this forum?

No way! They are mostly very religious god fearing farmers and a couple chiropractors.
And I know you said most of our members, but I am sick of people generalizing Americans and acting like we are all red-necks with no type of education or brain function.

[Coito ergo sum]

I was wondering when the patented CES tactic for derailing any criticism of the US would be deployed. Generally speaking, the people in this thread with the most blasé attitude to the death of foreign civilians are the Americans in the thread, so don't whine if you get a bit of flak for it. Here's an idea, if you don't want to get shot by a child in country X, don't invade country X. I doubt the blighter will turn up on your doorstep.

That isn't the case at at all.

First of all, I didn't "derail criticism of the US" -- not a bit. You asked if a medal was given for drones - you didn't specify what country the drones were from, and the US is not the only country that uses drones. In your own mind, the US use of drones is, I have no doubt whatsoever, the only one deserving of criticism, though. In response to your question, I said that maybe RAF pilots got them from the Queen for their killings in Libya. How in the world is that a derail? Why is your question a fair one my answer not? And, why would we assume you were talking about the US and not Limey?

This thread is not about US killing of civilians in war. It's about guns and gun laws. The fact that you made some ridiculously idiotic statement about it being the kid's fault if he runs into a war zone doesn't mean that the thread is now about Americans murdering civilians (implying, of course, that that is some argument that Americans make...). You haven't now turned the thread into a discussion limited to US killing of civilians in war.

And, fuck off with your "we're just talking about the US" nonsense, anyway. The reality is that if an American raised criticism against the Brits, stating that they murder civilians and don't give a fuck about dead children, you and/or other Brits would bring up the fact that the US engages in war and also kills civilians -- and you and/or they would properly ask why the focus is being leveled on the Brits. Pointing out that criticism is being unfairly leveled against one group or nation is not a derail at all, it's very relevant.

It would be like someone saying "black people commit crime." Discuss. And, then someone points out "hey, wait, you do know that crime is not peculiar to the black community, and Caucasians, Indians, east Asians, Jews, Latinos and everyone else commit crimes too, right?" It would be ridiculous for the first person to say "stop derailing the thread -- this thread is about blacks committing crime." Focusing a problem on a particular group, when the problem is broader than that one group, skews the issue and makes it appear as if it is a problem peculiar to that group -- and that is true whether it is a nationality (American or British, etc.) or a race, or a religion or a sex.

And as for blase' attitudes toward death of civilians in this thread, you're inventing that shit in your own mind. That's just typical Yerpeein' smug self-righteousness, pure and simple. And, it's just plain insulting, not to mention false.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

True, we didn't get a welcome home. As for the rest, you don't matter, not at all.

I don't want to matter.
Not in the way that you do.

And you won't. But no matter.

[Clinton Huxley]

Jim, I think most of our more right wing Merkin members already occupy the position that every American war was a just war.

90% of my family is right wing and none of them think Iraq was a just war, and they all agree that still being in Afghanistan is pretty fucking stupid. I've never asked them about previous wars, as we don't talk about politics etc. all that much.

Are they members of this forum?

No way! They are mostly very religious god fearing farmers and a couple chiropractors.

I was referring to right wing Ratz, rather than right wing Merkins generally.

[Twoflower]

See my edit.

[Clinton Huxley]

I was wondering when the patented CES tactic for derailing any criticism of the US would be deployed. Generally speaking, the people in this thread with the most blasé attitude to the death of foreign civilians are the Americans in the thread, so don't whine if you get a bit of flak for it. Here's an idea, if you don't want to get shot by a child in country X, don't invade country X. I doubt the blighter will turn up on your doorstep.

That isn't the case at at all.

First of all, I didn't "derail criticism of the US" -- not a bit. You asked if a medal was given for drones - you didn't specify what country the drones were from, and the US is not the only country that uses drones. In your own mind, the US use of drones is, I have no doubt whatsoever, the only one deserving of criticism, though. In response to your question, I said that maybe RAF pilots got them from the Queen for their killings in Libya. How in the world is that a derail? Why is your question a fair one my answer not? And, why would we assume you were talking about the US and not Limey?

This thread is not about US killing of civilians in war. It's about guns and gun laws. The fact that you made some ridiculously idiotic statement about it being the kid's fault if he runs into a war zone doesn't mean that the thread is now about Americans murdering civilians (implying, of course, that that is some argument that Americans make...). You haven't now turned the thread into a discussion limited to US killing of civilians in war.

And, fuck off with your "we're just talking about the US" nonsense, anyway. The reality is that if an American raised criticism against the Brits, stating that they murder civilians and don't give a fuck about dead children, you and/or other Brits would bring up the fact that the US engages in war and also kills civilians -- and you and/or they would properly ask why the focus is being leveled on the Brits. Pointing out that criticism is being unfairly leveled against one group or nation is not a derail at all, it's very relevant.

It would be like someone saying "black people commit crime." Discuss. And, then someone points out "hey, wait, you do know that crime is not peculiar to the black community, and Caucasians, Indians, east Asians, Jews, Latinos and everyone else commit crimes too, right?" It would be ridiculous for the first person to say "stop derailing the thread -- this thread is about blacks committing crime." Focusing a problem on a particular group, when the problem is broader than that one group, skews the issue and makes it appear as if it is a problem peculiar to that group -- and that is true whether it is a nationality (American or British, etc.) or a race, or a religion or a sex.

And as for blase' attitudes toward death of civilians in this thread, you're inventing that shit in your own mind. That's just typical Yerpeein' smug self-righteousness, pure and simple. And, it's just plain insulting, not to mention false.

CES, you use exactly the same tactics whenever anyone has a dig at the US. it's as predictable as the sunrise.

[JimC]

Jim, I think most of our more right wing Merkin members already occupy the position that every American war was a just war.

90% of my family is right wing and none of them think Iraq was a just war, and they all agree that still being in Afghanistan is pretty fucking stupid. I've never asked them about previous wars, as we don't talk about politics etc. all that much.

Are they members of this forum?

No way! They are mostly very religious god fearing farmers and a couple chiropractors.

I was referring to right wing Ratz, rather than right wing Merkins generally.

And I think, because of the nature of one or two of them, you tend to exaggerate their numbers, at least in the sense of extreme right wingers...

[Clinton Huxley]

I exaggerate less than anyone I know.

[JimC]

I exaggerate less than anyone I know.

[Coito ergo sum]

If the US had gone isolationist in the 50s, you may well be speaking Russian now...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_REFORGER

The US would never have let such a lucrative export market as W. Europe fall to the Reds....

Let? Let? Are you suggesting the US had the power to "save" W. Europe or to "let" W. Europe fall to the Soviets?

Huh -- that is odd given that Yerpeeins tell us all the time that Merka: (a) entered way late to the war long after any self-respecting nation would have been morally compelled to enter the fight, (b) hardly did any of the real fighting, which was pretty much over by then, and (c) it was pretty much won already and the US just came in to steal the glory - it was a guaranteed win by the time the US entered...

Admit it, Hux, Merka had nothing to do with saving W. Europe or its "lucrative export market..." It had already saved itself, and the Brits just let Merka come on over to help with mopping the senior citizen and Hitler Youth teenagers that were left fighting a last ditch effort to hold Fortress Europe, right?