Paul Ryan

[Warren Dew]

Didnt a lot of people vote for Obama becase they thought he was the messiah which alas he has proven not to be. They simply won't bothering voting next time surely

[Trinity]

If people are stupid and deluded enough to vote for assholes and believe the "promises" they're fed, then they can't expect to complain when it all goes tits up. That goes for the States and here. Obama had a vision (and I'm disregarding his religious views for a moment) of unity for America, that's why so many, including me, thought that this was it, change was a-coming, but he was crippled before he started because the system he moved into is fucked and almost everyone who works within it is fucked by corruption, avarice and megalomania. It will take a fucking titan with cojones the size of planets to sort things out over there.

[Warren Dew]

Obama had a vision (and I'm disregarding his religious views for a moment) of unity for America, that's why so many, including me, thought that this was it, change was a-coming, but he was crippled before he started because the system he moved into is fucked and almost everyone who works within it is fucked by corruption, avarice and megalomania.

Obama wasn't crippled by the system, he was part of it. Goldman Sachs and the other big banks didn't force him to take their campaign contributions; he took them willingly.

Obama's "vision" was just another version of the promises that people are duped into voting for.

[Trinity]

Obama had a vision (and I'm disregarding his religious views for a moment) of unity for America, that's why so many, including me, thought that this was it, change was a-coming, but he was crippled before he started because the system he moved into is fucked and almost everyone who works within it is fucked by corruption, avarice and megalomania.

Obama wasn't crippled by the system, he was part of it. Goldman Sachs and the other big banks didn't force him to take their campaign contributions; he took them willingly.

that's what I mean-how could he not have taken them willingly? It would have shown that he was a renegade and a rebel and he wouldn't have even got to be the president. Even those who have more morals and ideals than those surrounding them sometimes need to do things that go against their truth, if it benefits the bigger, more important picture.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Obama had a vision (and I'm disregarding his religious views for a moment) of unity for America, that's why so many, including me, thought that this was it, change was a-coming, but he was crippled before he started because the system he moved into is fucked and almost everyone who works within it is fucked by corruption, avarice and megalomania.

Obama wasn't crippled by the system, he was part of it. Goldman Sachs and the other big banks didn't force him to take their campaign contributions; he took them willingly.

that's what I mean-how could he not have taken them willingly? It would have shown that he was a renegade and a rebel and he wouldn't have even got to be the president. Even those who have more morals and ideals than those surrounding them sometimes need to do things that go against their truth, if it benefits the bigger, more important picture.

There's always a chance when a president takes office that he'll be the one to straighten things out. It's just not likely considering the ossification of the system.

[Trinity]

But ya gotta hope, no? I guess that's what we're probably best at, we humans-hope and telling ourselves it'll be different next time. God, I'm such a cynic.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

But ya gotta hope, no? I guess that's what we're probably best at, we humans-hope and telling ourselves it'll be different next time. God, I'm such a cynic.

I survived Vietnam and Watergate, and nearly survived Iran-Contra, so I'm a wee cynic me selfs.

[pErvinalia]

As a Mormon, could Romney not have more than one running mate?

[pErvinalia]

If people are stupid and deluded enough to vote for assholes and believe the "promises" they're fed, then they can't expect to complain when it all goes tits up. That goes for the States and here. Obama had a vision (and I'm disregarding his religious views for a moment) of unity for America, that's why so many, including me, thought that this was it, change was a-coming, but he was crippled before he started because the system he moved into is fucked and almost everyone who works within it is fucked by corruption, avarice and megalomania. It will take a fucking titan with cojones the size of planets to sort things out over there.

Absolutely this! The only quibble i'd have is whether the system corrupted him, or whether he was already corrupted. Probably a bit of both.

[pErvinalia]

But ya gotta hope, no? I guess that's what we're probably best at, we humans-hope and telling ourselves it'll be different next time. God, I'm such a cynic.

No, you're a realist. You (and I, and others) aren't deluded by the all the propaganda.

But I have this fantasy hope that Obama will go rogue in his last term (as much as is possible with an opposition congress - unless that changes this election (what's the thinking on that?)). Without having any firm details, it's my impression that second term presidents sometimes get a bit toey near the end of their last term and start thinking about what their legacy will probably be. I didn't really follow American politics that much back when Clinton was Prez, but it seemed to me that at the end of his second term he started rushing through some proper liberal things, probably in the realisation that he didn't do much socially liberal stuff for the rest of his presidency. I'm hoping Obama might be a real liberal on the inside and might just go mental in his last term. It seems to me that with some of his more recent 'attacks' on the rich and bankers etc, that he could be gearing up for something.

Maybe i'm just a silly dreamer...

[Warren Dew]

But ya gotta hope, no? I guess that's what we're probably best at, we humans-hope and telling ourselves it'll be different next time. God, I'm such a cynic.

Sometimes I think that's how it works. You keep going through presidents, and if they don't work out, you vote for the opponent the next time around. Eventually you luck into one that isn't as bad.

A four year trial period seems a bit excessive, though.

[pErvinalia]

But ya gotta hope, no? I guess that's what we're probably best at, we humans-hope and telling ourselves it'll be different next time. God, I'm such a cynic.

Sometimes I think that's how it works. You keep going through presidents, and if they don't work out, you vote for the opponent the next time around. Eventually you luck into one that isn't as bad.

A four year trial period seems a bit excessive, though.

The problem is that the system just generates corpratist Presidents. You'll never get a president who works for the people, as opposed to corporations, until you fix the problems in your system. What's that quote - 'The definition of insanity is doing the same wrong thing over and over again'?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Coito ergo sum]

I listened to Ryan talking about medical care and the deficit. He made perfect sense to me frankly, which as a liberal lefty worries me a bit - and my fanboi status r.e. Obama.

The reality differs from the Obama Administration talking points and cartoons. Take the social security issue. He isn't looking to change anything for current or nearly retired senior citizens, and as I understand it, he's proposing a "fix" -- not to take away retirement benefits, but to in the end enhance them in a fiscally sustainable way.