You guys and your guns...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[mistermack]

mistermack

You are a year younger than me. I trust that from now on you will show proper respect to me, junior.

Of course, pop.
Can I get you a chair?.

I said, CAN I GET YOU A CHAIR ???

Oh, never mind.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Seth]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

I personally don't believe a single word that Seth writes.
I'm not saying it's all lies. Just that it could well be.

Without corroberation from a responsible adult, I jut treat it all as childish fantasy. Because that's how it comes across.

Which just fine with me because it's a fatal mistake to underestimate your enemy, says Sun Tsu.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's equally bad to over-estimate one's self.

[Seth]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

I have zero inhibitions towards using my firearm with lethal effect if and when it is both lawful and necessary to do so, and only then. If you have inhibitions against using a firearm with lethal effect when it is lawful and necessary to do so, then you shouldn't carry a firearm because hesitating in the instant that you have to react will likely be fatal.

I train long, hard and regularly in shoot/don't shoot scenarios to hone my perceptions of the onset of a lethal attack precisely so that I will suffer no delay in responding appropriately and lawfully in any situation where the use of force might be applicable.

This does not mean, contrary to your silly notions, that I am eager to put my firearm to use. Exactly the opposite. I hope I never, ever have to shoot anyone. But being mentally prepared to do so, and to discern the circumstances where it is both lawful and necessary to do so, is of supreme importance for anyone who chooses to carry a firearm for personal protection because at the narrow passage, hesitate and you are lost.

[Seth]

Yes, ok, that's all very funny. But the point is - Why did you have a sook about it when it was done to you? Why not just take it like a man?

Because it amused me to twit you about it, given how whiny you were being.

[Seth]

Considering that most defensive gun uses occur without a shot being fired, how else would anyone know about them? If I've been accosted by a crook, pull a revolver and tell him to fuck off, and he runs off into the night, I'm probably not going to waste the rest of my evening telling the cops about the bad guy who was here just a minute ago but I scared him off. No police report, yet a crime was prevented, and depending on the mental state and intentions of the criminal, harm to myself may have been avoided.

You are accosted by what I assume is a crook without a gun and you considering escalating the situation by bring out a lethal weapon as success. Never mind a civilian doing that if a policeman did that in the UK I would hope he would lose his job and be looking at jail time.

That ideology is so fucked up its beyond comprehension, but you have convinced me of one thing it isnt just guns that are the problem its the attitude of gun owners

Yeah, in your fucking insane world, you just bend over and take it up the ass because paranoia and fear rule your entire life.

I think you've got that the wrong way round. The people who feel they need guns to protect themselves are more likely to be paranoid and fearful than someone who feels like they are adequately safe without owning a gun.

No they aren't. They are, for the most part, realists who understand that criminals are unpredictable and can strike anywhere at any time with lethal effect, as in the case of the Aurora movie theater shooting and every other incident of mass or individual armed attack. Those who think they are "adequately safe" are living in a fantasy world, as testified to by the 50 people killed and injured in that movie theater, not one of whom was armed.

I'm neither fearful nor paranoid about potential criminal attack precisely because I carry a gun, have trained extensively in it's proper use in self-defense situations, and am confident in my abilities to respond in a proper, lawful and timely manner in the event of an attack. I walk where I please when I please and I fear no one. That mental state, one of alert, heads-up preparedness and situational awareness that comes from training and from carrying a gun is reflected in my body language, which criminals are quite adept at reading. That makes them avoid me and seek out the weaker sheeple who walk about with their heads down in a posture of paranoia and fear. Thus, merely training with and carrying a firearm substantially reduces the chances that I will be chosen as a victim by a street thug. And it leaves me prepared to do something, however ineffective it might be, in the event of a deranged active shooter incident. At least people can say I tried to save lives, even if I end up dead. That's a fine testament that I'd be perfectly satisfied with. Hopefully, however, my training and situational awareness will actually allow me to save lives in such a situation, even if it only distracts the shooter for a few moments so others can escape. Seconds count in such situations, and it is not a characteristic of deranged shooters that they are well-trained and disciplined enough to stand there and continue shooting innocent people when someone else...ANYONE else is shooting at them. That sort of courage and self-sacrifice is only seen in those who have trained hard and resolved to stand and fight rather than running away.

This is what the police learned from Columbine and it's precisely why the tactical paradigm for the active shooter is for the first-responding officers to run towards the gunfire and engage the shooter as quickly as possible, even if they cannot be definitively effective in taking him out.

The utility of this paradigm has been demonstrated on several occasions where armed citizens (or in the mall shooting case an off-duty police officer) have intervened to good effect and reduced casualties merely by making the shooter take cover and keep his head down. That was demonstrated as far back as the Texas Tower shooting, where as soon as civilians with high-powered, scoped hunting rifles showed up to augment the police, who were at the time only armed with shotguns and pistols incapable of providing suppressive fire, the shooter in the tower was forced to retreat behind the parapet wall and subsequent casualties were significantly reduced by the suppressive fire.

[Seth]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

Yeah, that's my view of Seth as well. I think it's a fucking miracle he hasn't shot anyone in the 50 years or whatever that he has been a civilian gun owner. Surely it's only a matter of time till he does it, going by the increasingly violent and bitter opinions he's spouted over the years.

It's not a miracle, its common sense, a mature and rational adult personality, and a lot of careful training, combined with some good luck.

Nobody's going to be shot by me unless they are an imminent danger to myself or others and a lesser degree of force (like threatening them with a gun) would be inadequate to stop the threat.

Or unless they are Marxists invading my country or trying to overthrow the Constitution and government, which I consider an imminent lethal threat to me and everyone else.

Unless you fall into one of those two categories, you're much safer around me than anyone else you know.

[Seth]

How about....

...gun bans are a no-no...

but,

...reasonable regulation of arms, like time, place and manner restrictions, safety regulations, permitting and licensing for carrying, and registration, etc., are fine...

and,

...there is no bright line as to where the level of "reasonableness" falls, but that's what the Supreme Court is for, in interpreting the reasonableness of State regulations to ensure that they do not violate the 14th Amendment substantive due process/liberty clause...?

That, of course, is a reasonable position. I may tend to think your country would be better off if it moved a little more in the regulation direction than you, but you've recognised that it's a position for argument, for debate, and ultimately for some sort of democratic resolution. As I've said many times, the form of the democratic resolution within your country is of course up to you folk, just like our gun regulations are up to us. And some sort of a "let's ban guns" is simplistic and unworkable, of course...

That doesn't stop me from offering an opinion, particularly an opinion on the attitudes of the extreme end of the gun lobby. If I see their proposition that "guns are the only thing standing between us and tyrants" as absurd and deluded, I will say so in no uncertain terms. This in itself is not some blanket form of US bashing, but part of a measured response to a particular set of attitudes.

Others in this thread have gone too far in blanket attacks on the US over the gun issue, which was never my intention, as a careful reading of my posts will confirm.

Guns are not the "only thing standing between us and tyrants," they are just the option of last resort if tyrants refuse to abide by our direction and cede power peacefully. Would-be tyrants are fully aware of this, which is why we don't have many instances of the attempt over here. Such would-be tyrants tend to crop up in places like banana republics and socialist societies where the citizenry is ALREADY largely disarmed.

There was an interesting photo essay in PDN this month by a photojournalist who went to Nicaragua and spoke with former Contras, who mostly hid their weapons rather than turning them in because they feared being rounded up and wiped out by the Sandanistas.

The 2nd Amendment was created to protect the ultimate right of the people to choose their form of government even in the face of a tyrant who refuses to obey them and cede power.

[Seth]

I am afraid, Seth, that what you have said on this thread makes me think your authorities made a big mistake giving you a gun license. When you say things like "try it and see how long you survive" you are indicating too little inhibition towards using a firearm with lethal effect.

A responsible user of firearms for the defense of himself and other humans should be a person who is exceedingly reluctant to use it. Being over-eager is a recipe for tragedy.

Yeah, that's my view of Seth as well. I think it's a fucking miracle he hasn't shot anyone in the 50 years or whatever that he has been a civilian gun owner. Surely it's only a matter of time till he does it, going by the increasingly violent and bitter opinions he's spouted over the years.

I'm prepared to bet there a few bodies from 'self defense' that Seth may have left around, I suspect if his posting here (assuming its not one big psychopath act) if linked to real life would result in guns being taken away even in the US

You're such a fuckwitted wanker. But thanks for the compliment, it's nice to hear that I'm such a highly-qualified assassin that I've gone all these years without detection. I must be very, very skilled, on a par with the Jackal. Of course if that's true, you should be afraid, very afraid, because you might be next.

Sleep tight, you paranoid fuck.

[Seth]

I personally don't believe a single word that Seth writes.
I'm not saying it's all lies. Just that it could well be.

Without corroberation from a responsible adult, I jut treat it all as childish fantasy. Because that's how it comes across.

What? No. Seth is totally serious business, all the time. 24/7, 365. Well actually, 364. He takes a break for Arbor Day.

No, 4th of July.

[MrJonno]

Can't be too careful around people who casually use the word 'tyrant' in conversation

[Blind groper]

Would-be tyrants are fully aware of this, which is why we don't have many instances of the attempt over here. Such would-be tyrants tend to crop up in places like banana republics and socialist societies where the citizenry is ALREADY largely disarmed.

My country is not a banana republic. We have tight gun control. We also have a government that is more to be trusted that anything the USA has ever unearthed.
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/new-zealan ... -cw-105485

Our enviable position as having the world's most trustworthy government has nothing to do with citizenry carrying guns, because they do not.

Also, Seth, your naive view that carrying a gun adds to safety is just not correct. The University of Pennsylvania study by Prof. Branas et al shows that those who carry a gun increase the odds of getting shot by 450%.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2759797/
http://scienceblogs.com/gregladen/2009/ ... shot-more/

[Jason]

You also have Hobbits. Don't forget the Hobbits.