You guys and your guns...

[JimC]

Wronge, everybody on this thread is nuts, except mistermack who is pure bolts.

And you've got a screw loose...

[Ayaan]

So am I nuts for wanting to learn to shoot a gun?

(Might be a handy skill to have during the zombie apocalypse.)

[Seabass]

Why are we only allowed to compare the U.S. to a small handful of cherry-picked western European countries when there are nearly two hundred countries in the world?

Who do you regard as the peers of the USA?

Who gives a shit?

Do you want to be lumped in with third world nations?

Why no, what gave you that idea?

I have not 'cherry picked'.

You're comparing the U.S. to low violence countries, and excluding comparisons to countries with higher levels of violence. How is that not cherry picking?

The nations I said were the peers of the USA are all western developed nations, which the USA is supposed to be. Japan is perhaps an outlier, but its inclusion is not needed to make the point. I could add France, Spain, Belgium etc. The result is the same.

The USA isn't Japan, Belgium, or France. The USA is the USA. Turns out, different countries are different.

You can make the USA look good by comparing it to undeveloped nations. But is that the comparison you want for America?

No, I don't want that comparison. Why do you keep asking that?

Do you want to be seen as part of a group including Mexico, Russia, Eastern Europe, Somaliland, Afghanistan?

Stop saying that! I asked a simple question about cherry picking and double standards. I'm not the one who keeps making these stupid comparisons.

[Blind groper]

You're comparing the U.S. to low violence countries, and excluding comparisons to countries with higher levels of violence. How is that not cherry picking?
.

The comparison is not to low violence nations, but to similarly developed nations with a western culture. The point is that nations similar to the USA but with strong gun control have very low murder rates.

I select the other developed English speaking countries (NZ, Australia, Canada, Britain) plus all the western European nations. I exclude the former Soviet bloc, Africa, central and south America, and Asia, since the cultures are not directly comparable.

If this is cherry picking, it is cherry picking by advanced social culture - not by levels of violence.

The point is that the USA is alone among its peer group in having a level of homicide approaching third world levels. If you look at the graph I posted, and the enormous percentage of those homicides carried out with hand guns, you will see why.

[FBM]

So am I nuts for wanting to learn to shoot a gun?

(Might be a handy skill to have during the zombie apocalypse.)

Depends on who you plan to use as a target while you're learning...

[Svartalf]

Wronge, everybody on this thread is nuts, except mistermack who is pure bolts.

And you've got a screw loose...

Man, I got a gift for the offcolor and you give me this? You know that I'm supposed to be on best behavior, right?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So am I nuts for wanting to learn to shoot a gun?

(Might be a handy skill to have during the zombie apocalypse.)

Depends on who you plan to use as a target while you're learning...

Always shoot at silhouettes. Just sayin'.

[Coito ergo sum]

You're comparing the U.S. to low violence countries, and excluding comparisons to countries with higher levels of violence. How is that not cherry picking?
.

The comparison is not to low violence nations, but to similarly developed nations with a western culture. The point is that nations similar to the USA but with strong gun control have very low murder rates.

Let's compare it to Switzerland, too, which, like Vermont and New Hampshire, has a lot of guns and no gun violence. And, then we can compare Harlem, the Bronx, Compton, Newark, Detroit, and Camden, to some of the more violent places in Europe.

And, the US homicide rate doesn't approach third world levels. Third world levels are like Mexico and Brazil - the US doesn't even come close to that. We're in the middle, and the rate is dropping steadily.

[MrJonno]

Switzerland has far stricter gun laws than any US state, carry a handgun and if you are lucky the police might let you live long enough to lock you away for a long time.

They allow unloaded firearms which are locked in your boot to carried for sporting events , possessing a loaded weapon outside those events is a crime there. Its more lax than other European countries but most American gun nuts would not be able to cope for very long if they lived there

[Coito ergo sum]

Switzerland has far stricter gun laws than any US state, carry a handgun and if you are lucky the police might let you live long enough to lock you away for a long time.

They allow unloaded firearms which are locked in your boot to carried for sporting events , possessing a loaded weapon outside those events is a crime there. Its more lax than other European countries but most American gun nuts would not be able to cope for very long if they lived there

So, it isn't the access to guns that is the problem, eh?

We were just told that if one state makes laws prohibiting guns altogether that it doesn't matter. People will just go get guns across state lines.

Now you're saying they can have all the guns they want, we just need laws about where you can carry them loaded?

[Tyrannical]

You're comparing the U.S. to low violence countries, and excluding comparisons to countries with higher levels of violence. How is that not cherry picking?
.

The comparison is not to low violence nations, but to similarly developed nations with a western culture. The point is that nations similar to the USA but with strong gun control have very low murder rates.

I select the other developed English speaking countries (NZ, Australia, Canada, Britain) plus all the western European nations. I exclude the former Soviet bloc, Africa, central and south America, and Asia, since the cultures are not directly comparable.

If this is cherry picking, it is cherry picking by advanced social culture - not by levels of violence.

The point is that the USA is alone among its peer group in having a level of homicide approaching third world levels. If you look at the graph I posted, and the enormous percentage of those homicides carried out with hand guns, you will see why.

Funny how you exclude Africa and South America, because the majority of violent crime in the US is caused by those ethnic groups, especially Blacks. Try comparing one of the few pure US White areas to Europe and the crime difference isn't that big.

[Coito ergo sum]

Wronge, everybody on this thread is nuts, except mistermack who is pure bolts.

And you've got a screw loose...

You really hit the nail on the head.

[MrJonno]

I have less of an issue with the strict licensing of guns being used at sporting events, getting in and out of Switzlerland isnt particuarly band its not to do with the local milita more to do with the Alps so the leakage of guns out of Switzerland is not a big issue. If it ever became one you would see some serious diplomatic pressure. The Swiss are members of the Schengen treaty which is a trade agreement which is related to the EU. They have to change a lot of their gun laws to join this

Removing the 'right' to have a gun, making it a criminal offence to load it outside sporting events and having the police reguarly kicking your door in to ensure you are complying is obviously going to better than a free for all but still dangerous to me.

By the way for military rifles its no longer allowed to keep ammunition for them at home its only avaliable at an military armory in the event of invasion

[FBM]

Wronge, everybody on this thread is nuts, except mistermack who is pure bolts.

And you've got a screw loose...

You really hit the nail on the head.

That one's been used. You'll need to take another tack.

[Wumbologist]

BEIJING—A teenager killed eight people with a knife and wounded five more in northeast China after falling out with his girlfriend, state media said Thursday.

The teen killed two of her family members and six more people before fleeing, the state-run Legal Daily newspaper said. It reported he was caught but did not describe the circumstances.

Continued...

Looks like outlawing guns worked wonders for China.